Expert: Robert P. Firriolo - 12/12/2008

Question
QUESTION: Thank you in advance for answering my question.

I wish to apply for a New York City handgun permit.  I already have a shotgun permit.   My question is what type of permit is appropriate.  I run a well known home-based business that often takes in cash payments.  I would like to be able to keep a handgun in the home/office.  I have no interest in a NYC carry permit, but I also go to my second home in upstate New York often and would like to bring it there - primarly for target shooting but also to carry for hiking/camping overnights.   The NYPD website provides a great deal of information but is a bit confusing regarding the types of permits.  Any help would be appreciated in navigating through this step of the process.

ANSWER: NYPD basically makes up whatever types of licenses suit their needs, even if such licenses are not authorized by state law. The courts let them get away with it, so they do as they please.

You can readily obtain a Premises license from NYPD, assuming there is nothing to disqualify you from getting a license. You can get one for your place of business (Premises Business) and/or for your home (Premises Residence). In your case, they are the same place, so you could apply for either. It would probably be simpler to apply for Premises Residence so you don't have to go into details about your business.  

NYPD's current Premises license is what they once called a Premises-Target license. This license does not exist in state law. NYPD made it up out of whole cloth because they did not like the fact that the Target license they used to issue was, by law, a restricted carry license, and they could not prosecute Target licensees who carried handguns in violation of their license terms. But an appellate court in New York has ruled that NYPD may issue the Premises-Target license, so it remains on the books. With that license you can keep handguns in your home and also take them, cased and unloaded, to and from a range for practice. NYPD used to issue a plain Premises license (which is what state law authorizes) but have now merged it with the made-up Premises-Target license.

NYPD will issue a "hunting authorization" to Premises license holders. However, under the state penal law, which regulates handgun possession throughout the state, they technically cannot authorize you to take the gun anywhere off the licensed premises. You could not carry, or even possess, your handgun upstate with a Premises license, as it is not a carry license. There is nothing in the law which requires any law enforcement agency outside of New York City to recognize a NYC Premises license as valid to possess a handgun outside of your premises. You would be taking your gun to your upstate home at your peril. Unfortunately, unless you qualify for a NYC carry license of some sort, you have no other options.

NYPD's own FAQ admits as much:

"Can I go target shooting outside NYC?

A NYC carry business license is valid throughout NYS. Premise residence and premise business licenses are only valid in NYC except as indicated in the next section."

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"Can I go hunting if I have a premises residence license?

You must obtain a hunting authorization from the License Division to hunt in an authorized area designated by the NYS Fish and Wildlife law. Your handgun must be transported unloaded, in a locked container and you must comply with all relevant NYS hunting regulations."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/permits/gun_licensing_faq.shtml#CanITargetShoo

Again, NYPD's conclusion that their hunting authorization allows you to take a gun hunting is wrong. Nothing in state law allows the holder of a premise license to take the gun off the premises.

I sued NYPD when they created the "Premises-Target" license and argued that it could not replace the old Target license because it was not valid outside the City. NYPD took the position in opposing the suit that they could create such a license and that it would be valid outside the City. Now that some years have passed, they are essentially forced to concede that they were wrong, but they have no interest whatsoever in doing anything to make the situation right. You're limited to target shooting within the city, or risk prosecution by taking your gun outside the city. Also, you are not eligible for a license from the county where your second home is located because it is not your residence.

Since you are not interested in applying for a carry license, your only option is the Premises license. If you want to take your gun upstate legally, inquire with NYPD's License Division what you would need to do to qualify for a Limited Carry Business License.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for the quick response!  Your answer confirmed much of what I had learned already - I did call the upstate county sheriff who made it clear I wasnt getting a permit for a secondary residence.

To rephrase part of my initial question...it isnt that I am not interested in a NYC carry permit.  Rather I dont want to carry a weapon in NYC.  Does the Limited Carry Business License allow for an explanation and some flexibility with the granting/investigating officer?

I understand that a good number of applicants are granted a permit of some kind (I do not recall where I read that). I also know this process can take 5-9 months.  I just want to get it right - i.e. apply for the proper permit - the first time.

So, with all that said, any additional advice or wisdom?

UPDATE:  I have since spoken with an officer at the NYPD handgun permit office at 1 PP.  They said that there is absolutely no way to get a NYC handgun permit that would allow me to transport a weapon out of city (even if properly unloaded and secured) to use at a legal/membership range elsewhere in New York State.   Even a Limited Carry Business License would allow approximately two to three hours once a week and would specify exactly where I can go.  I am, for some reason, not surprised.

So, follow up question part 2 - am I correct in assuming the Hunting Exemption is a gray area and it could really get me in more trouble than its worth?

Answer
I wish I could tell you something more definite about using the Hunting Exemption, but I cannot. I think it would be unlikely that any law enforcement officer would arrest somebody who possessed a handgun while hunting and had a valid hunting NYS license and a NYPD handgun license with the Hunting Authorization. That being said, there is nothing in the law which makes such possession--with a premises license--at all legal. You will have to evaluate your own situation and weigh the merits and potential consequences for yourself.

Best of luck to you.