Expert: Robert P. Firriolo - 2/24/2011

Question
QUESTION: I have a CCW permit issued to me (in the eighties) when I lived upstate. Now, I just found out that when I move, I have to notify the police. Since I've moved (quite a while ago) to NYC, does this mean that my (good-till-revoked) permit will be annulled/revoked/cancelled? Or, do I get to keep it, and just can't use it to carry in the city?

ANSWER: There is nothing in the law that says your license is revoked if you move to NYC. Your good-until-revoked lifetime license remains in effect and remains invalid in NYC. It will be up to the licensing officer in the issuing county to decide to revoke the license, if he or she even finds out about the change of address from NYSP. And I would not put it beyond the realm of possibility that NYPD pays you a visit to make sure you have no guns in your NYC residence. [I do not know that NYSP will in fact notify NYPD of your change of address. I just don't rule it out as a possibility, given the political realities of who is in charge of NYSP and NYPD.]

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Follow-up: I'd like, of course, to get a NYC carry license. I understand my chances are fat, slim or none unless I'm someone famous (or Mike B's bodyguard). Would I have a less fat, less slim, or less none chance if I tried to validate my NYS carry permit in NYC? Or, is it the same process?

Would hiring an attorney help my chances? I'm an attorney in private practice in NYC.

Thanks!

ANSWER: I believe that it would matter little whether you sought a "Special" endorsement of your current license or applied for a new license in NYC. First, the requirement of showing "proper cause" (or "need") would be the same. Second, I suspect NYPD would not grant you the endorsement because you are now resident in NYC (a fact which you would disclose on any application). They would likely require that you surrender your upstate license if you wanted to apply for any NYC license.

Unless you have some type of "proper cause" that is within the realm of acceptability by NYPD, I doubt an attorney will be of assistance. If you're in borderline category, it is possible a licensing attorney could show that similarly situated applicants have been granted licenses, and thus denial of your application would be arbitrary and capricious. But if you're not making cash deposits; not the recipient of verifiable threats; or not rich and famous; your chances range from low to zero.

Don't give up hope, though. The federal civil rights lawsuit up in Westchester (Kachalsky) is challenging the proper cause requirement for NYS licenses. With Alan Gura as lead counsel, the entire discretionary licensing scheme in New York could well be thrown out, once the appeals process is concluded. So stay tuned.

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QUESTION: I just started plowing through Looseleaf's "Firearms and Weapons Laws" (Lt. Thomas & Jeffrey Chamberlain) and came across this (in commentary to PL 400.00(10)): "Curiously, it appears that licensees who move to Nassau, Suffolk or Westchester Counties (but not to New York City) may retain their existing licenses." (I didn't see where the commentator got this from the text.) Does this mean my goose is cooked?

Thanks!

Answer
I have that reference book too, and while it is useful, it is not always correct and it is certainly not comprehensive. (For example, it omits important New York case law.)

There is no distinction in the penal law with respect to moving to Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, or New York City with a good-for-life license. Whatever county issued your license will have to revoke it in order for it to become invalid. (Except that, as we discussed, it is not now, and never was, valid in NYC.)