Abortion/Answers

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wow.. your answers are just as bad as Cheryl's. I was in no way attacking Cheryl, I'm sorry you thought that because that truly was not my intention. I just believe that if by "helping" woman in the abortion category she is going to say I can not help you, that is not being helpful. I ow realize that your answers mimick her's.. I just didn't realize that pro-lifers are swarming the abortion category here.  If a woman has already decided to have an abortion making her feel bad about her choice is not helpful. Yes some women do have bad emotional reactions to abortions, if a woman is not 100% sure about her decision going into the process I have realized that yes they will have feelings of guilt later. In my clinic we do not perform an abortion unless a woman is 100% sure of her decision and we feel she is going into this decision for the right reason. We do screen our woman, and if I don't feel they can emotionally handle the process we will send them away. Yes the risks that you stated are real, but they are so very, very low. In the 5 years one of my coworkers has worked at my clinic we have never had a emergency situation like he oh so many you listed. Just like with the birth control risks, they are risk of course, but very low. A woman is 10 times more likely to die in childbirth than in a abortion. I would never push a woman into abortion, but by the time they are sitting down with me in my clinic there mind is already made up most of the time.  And if a woman asks me how she will feel after an abortion, I do state that guilt could be a feelings. Theres really no way of knowing how a woman will feel after an abortion and woman do not always feel guilt like you stated, there is a wide range of emotions. And I do not secretly cring at my job, I do like my job. I left a job in the medical field to come to my clinic, knowing I would be counseling abortion patients and assisting with abortions. I am so thankful that woman have that right to choose, and reality is whether you agree with abortion or not, no matter if we think it is right or wrong, it is the mother's body and it is her right to choose. Now thankfully in my state abortions are only legal up until 13 weeks and 6 days, and for good reason. Late second and third trimester abortions is simply not something I could handle but earlier in pregnancy my opinion is different. I love children, have 2 of my own, and am trying for a 3rd, but regardless of my opinions if I ever did want to abort for whatever reason, I want that option available to me.But for all the abortion we do perform, we prevent so many more but encouraging birth control.   And while some clinic's may be unsanitary my clinic is very clean. In fact is is built and maintained to outpatient hospital guidelines. So while I see what you and Cherly are doing, your opinion is that you are "helping" these woman by trying to scare them away from abortion. i see that you are both very pro-choice and in your minds I'm sure you do believe you are helping woman b/c you firmly believe in your cause. I however firmly believe in mine. So you are entitled to your opinions and beliefs just like the protesters who protest outside of my building. And while I do not agree with your beliefs I do respect that you are so passionate about your cause. So good day to you, and I hope you have a blessed ThanksGiving.

Answer
Hello, April,

That was certainly a helpful way to start off your message! (NOT!) :) As for this category "swarming with pro-lifers", I only know of two of us, which I certainly wouldn't call a "swarm". There are at least three abortion proponents here, or have been in the recent past.

It is good to hear that your facility is different, and that you do turn women away if they're not certain. There are so many bad facilities out there. Are you doing anything about these facilities that are giving the abortion industry a bad name? If not, why not? That obviously reflects on your service as well, so if I were in your shoes, I would certainly be concerned. Do you support legislation that will help protect women? If not, why not? What about all the services that SELL abortions to women who are not certain? Personnel, who have left, openly admit they were selling abortions. What you evidently don't know, however, is that women won't always tell you they don't really WANT an abortion. By the time they get to you, many have steeled themselves because it's the only way they can go through with it. They turn off their thought processes. They won't think about the niggles they experience deeply. You will never know whether or not the women who seem certain really are.

Let me tell you about a personal experience I had. This was a woman who talked to some of us, and she wanted an abortion because she never wanted to be a mother, and she was absolutely certain she wanted one. She was bound and determined. So she had one. They put her to sleep, so she didn't experience the abortion itself. Afterwards, she kept in touch. At one point, she even asked, "I was a mother, wasn't I?" The way she phrased it, she WANTED to have been a mother, or to have considered herself a mother. We reassured her. A few weeks later, she became suicidal. She sent a message, and two of us stayed up all night, exchanging messages with her to keep her from doing it. I called the suicide hotline in her city, 3000 miles away, and it put me on hold without even giving me a chance to talk to anyone, and I waited, long distance, for 20 minutes, to get an answer before hanging up. A woman in her city had offered her help. I tried to call her. I didn't know she was out of town. I was never so scared in all my life! Anyway, we got her through the night, and she had another episode of feeling suicidal a few months later, but it wasn't as bad. And still we kept in touch. When she was so broke she couldn't pay her light bill, I paid it for her. And we kept in touch. And a couple of years later, she wrote me and said, "I have a colleague at work. She thinks she is pregnant, and if she is, she will have an abortion. PLEASE talk her out of it! My abortion ruined my life!" And you know what? She was right. She lost her scholarship and couldn't continue her education. She couldn't find a decent job. She lost her boyfriend, whom she loved dearly. She was literally at rock bottom. Her abortion solved nothing. Now this was a woman who was experiencing severe morning sickness and couldn't even go to class, but we could have helped her with that. So at least she had some kind of medical reason. You don't go through an experience like that with someone you care about without it affecting how you look at things.

I almost had an abortion once. Had I had one, it would have been because I was defrauded (lied to) and coerced. I was really lucky I didn't allow the person to touch me. Under the circumstances, there was no way I would have known he was an abortionist, or that he would be performing an abortion on me. When I found out, I started to have horrible, horrible nightmares, the kind that make you wake up in a cold sweat. One time, a man with a huge butcher knife was chasing me through the dark and rainy street. I was very pregnant. I got away at the last minute. Another time, I was trying to climb an interminable white spiral stairs into the sky, and there were all these men on the stairs, all trying to rape me. I was very pregnant. I got away at the last minute. I had those kinds of nightmares until my baby died of natural causes. I would NEVER wish that off on anyone, even my worst enemy. You have NO WAY of knowing which women who come to you will have this kind of reaction. Remember the reaction of the woman I described? She was absolutely certain. And yet, she became suicidal. If we hadn't loved and cared enough for her to keep talking to her, she might have gone through with it.

You are unlikely to hear from the women who have problems. In our experience, most of the women will never set foot in the place where they had their abortions, ever again.

This isn't part of a woman's body, and all women know this deep inside. The baby has fingers and eyes by 6 weeks LMP, and that's about the time most women become certain they are pregnant. I imagine you have to check the remains to make sure the abortionist got everything. This means counting arms, legs, etc. There is a real human form there. If it were true that the baby was part of a woman's body, then I would have had male sex organs for several years of my life, and I find that notion downright insulting! I am proud to be a woman.

I fully agree that a woman should be able to do whatever she wants with her own body, within reason. I don't think a person has a right to poison himself with street drugs, for example. But since this is not her body, but the body of another human being who has a life ahead of him or her, then she has some kind of duty not to harm the baby. If she doesn't want to be a parent, there are people who will gladly assume that responsibility. But contrary to what you are saying, harm is NOT rare, and no, any kind of abortion is NOT safer than childbirth. On the contrary. Just a few examples of why not:

Many complications in childbirth can be traced back to a prior abortion. But they're counted as complications of childbirth, not complications of abortion, as they should be. Any kind of abortion makes it much more likely a woman will get triple negative breast cancer before she's 40. This kills 1/4 of its victims. These are never counted as deaths from abortion. If a woman has a close relative who has had breast cancer, and it's her first pregnancy, the chance of getting breast cancer is a virtual certainty. Most women who die from abortion complications are not counted or reported as abortion deaths. They are reported as deaths due to the complication, on the death certificate. Deaths from abortion are greatly under-reported. A private investigator using his own limited resources was able to discover twice as many deaths from abortion as had been reported to the CDC. He used public records, including newspaper articles, death certificates, forensic material, and other sources. In general, you don't KNOW whether or not women had complications after they left your facility, because most of them WILL NOT TELL YOU. They want nothing to do with your facility ever again. How do I know this? Because they told ME they feel that way. I have also advised women not to return, because abortion is medical malpractice, and if she can't trust them to find a medically safe answer for her, she cannot trust them with aftercare, either. And if you disagree that abortion is medical malpractice, as I suspect you will, think about the fact that malpractice insurance for an abortion practice is by FAR the costliest insurance in the medical field. There is a reason for that. Most abortionists get around this by making themselves judgment proof (signing over their assets to someone else) and then dropping all insurance. They agree to settle to avoid costly litigation, but the woman never collects a cent.

Incidentally, three close friends of mine had abortions. All three suffered severe complications. One had a son prematurely who developed sleep apnea. He had to be hospitalized for three weeks to save his life. Another almost died from a ruptured tubal pregnancy. The abortionist didn't diagnose it. I have NO close friends who had an abortion and didn't have a serious complication. One of my relatives was raped and had an abortion because she was afraid of what her parents would do if they found out. Her fear was well grounded. She was in and out of mental hospitals for ten years afterwards that I know about, and it destroyed her marriage. Two of my friends had pregnancies from rape and had their children and raised them. One is happily married, and the other has eight children, and of those children, the one she is closest to is the one she conceived from rape. You see, a person's experiences do play a role in determining what position to take on the sticky question of abortion.

Oh, and by the way, wouldn't it be nice if a woman really WAS in control of her body, so she would never "need" an abortion? She lost control when she became pregnant against her will. If she has an abortion, she turns control of her body over to a stranger who USUALLY doesn't even CARE what happens to her (in fact sexual molestation of abortion clients is surprisingly common). So where is the control of her body in all of that?

If you are unaware, as obviously you are, how seriously damaging abortion is, medically, how can you obtain informed consent from any woman? I would have to argue you cannot. But like I said, if you insist on the idea that such complications are rare, I am fully prepared to send you a very LONG list of citations of medical papers that will show you otherwise. So don't try that argument on me.

I am happy you are satisfied with your job. A lot of women would like to get out, but they need the money from their job. So I made the offer. You are obviously free to turn it down.

You speak of the complications being rare. Sadly, they are not rare at all. While any one complication may appear to be rare, when you add them altogether, most women are going to experience some kind of serious adverse effect in the long run. In any case, for the woman who experiences the problem, the chance is 100%, isn't it? And you can't predict who will experience what. A woman who is absolutely certain she wants an abortion doesn't earn some kind of exemption. If the abortion kills her, she is still dead. Abortion complications don't respect a woman's mindset about whether she wants an abortion or not.

See this report:

http://www.theunchoice.com/specialreports/invisibledeaths.htm

I will give you a citation right now. 64% of women who get an abortion feel coerced. This is from a peer reviewed article published in a medical journal by David Reardon. There is a prepared 21 page report that says at least 30% were coerced. You can obtain a copy of that here:

http://www.unfairchoice.info/pdf/FactSheets/ForcedAbortions.pdf

You should also read all the pages linked on this one:

http://afterabortion.org/1999/more-research-on-post-abortion-issues/

Do you turn away 1/3 of your clients? If you don't turn away that many, some that don't really want abortions are slipping through your screening. There is a moral responsibility attached if you let that happen.

Now, this is just scratching the surface of the information I have available to me. If I truly care about the women I help, then I won't abandon them to such a solution.

I have talked to at least a couple thousand women just here alone. Most of them were suffering from complications. Please keep that in mind. With that many people coming to a site like this with complications, there will be many others who never come here. I am absolutely certain that some of the women who came to me for help did not survive, and I am 99% sure that one woman who wrote to me committed suicide.

To tell a woman honestly that I will not help her hurt herself doesn't mean I cannot help her. I can offer her better solutions. So am I refusing to help her? Absolutely not! In nearly all cases, I can point them to someone who will help with whatever needs they have. The only exceptions are the women in Muslim countries, where no help is available, and being pregnant outside of wedlock could mean being stoned to death. I grieve for those women, but even then, I offer another suggestion. If you REALLY want to help the women who come to you, then you should do the same. Seriously. And if she says she doesn't want an abortion, do you point her to resources? If not, why not? Do you just abandon her? This is a serious question, and I'd really like to know the answer. So please let me know.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to hurt women. You are not entitled to hurt their babies. Please think about what I have said. Women deserve better than abortion. Give them REAL help. I will pray for you, and I hope you have a blessed Thanksgiving as well.

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Pat G

Expertise

I can help women with the consideration of their decision, and with resources, and I can share my own experiences as the mother of seven and grandmother of eleven. My approach is to show love and concern, and help women work through the issues, emotional, spiritual, practical. I also help women deal with boyfriend and family issues. I am not a doctor, but I have done extensive medical research, so I may be able to help with information. I am female. When you write, if you are or were pregnant, please tell me how far along you were or are, and if you have had an abortion, please tell me what kind. Thank you.

Experience

I have been working with women who are considering abortion for several years. I also work with women who have had abortions. Our family has also experienced adoption, so I can talk about that as well.

Education/Credentials
I am mostly self-taught. I also studied midwifery for awhile. I have spent years doing research on this topic. In fact, I have been doing research and working in this area since the early 1970's. I have been helping women online for a few years, under the guidance of a woman who was formally training in counseling.

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