AboutDanielle Expertise I can answer questions regarding medical and surgical abortion, questions about abortion in general, like moral and religious issues concerning the procedure. I'm happy to answer questions, have discussions, and provide further information, like pro-choice websites and organizations.
Experience I have people close to me who have gotten abortions, I know the current abortion issues, and I have researched abortion in depth for a long time.
Question QUESTION: Hi there. I have a question regarding those people who are oppossed to abortion, who say that it is only acceptable when the woman's life is at risk or if she is raped. I can see the former, but if they truly believe that a fetus is a human life, why support it for rape? They say because the woman didn't have a choice. But that seems like a sly way of saying that the woman didn't choose to have sex or derive pleasure from the experience. I have noticed that these people are VERY anti- sex, against pleasure for women in particular. Because even if a woman is married, she is NOT supossed to use birth control or have an abortion. I know that I would not be able to enjoy sex if I were constantly having to worry about getting pregnant. Why can't these people grasp the concept that not ALL women want to have children, and that women are sexual just like men are, and that doesn't make us "irresponsible" or "selfish" or "whorish". Grrrr.
Tricia
ANSWER: Hi Tricia :)
Yeah, it's probably because she didn't CHOOSE to have the sex, so therefore she should have the choice to end the pregnancy. However, I've come across one too many of these people who are also against exceptions for rape, incest, and even the woman's life. I actually read one comment about how rape rarely results in pregnancy, because the cervix will only open up when the woman is sexually excited. Which is basically science from before the 1300's. Or, that the rape was traumatic enough, so why "kill the baby" and make it even worse? Apparently carrying a pregnancy 9 months then raising that child, a 24/7 reminder of the rapist and the horrendous event is all fine and dandy and won't ever result in psychological problems for the woman or the child.
Yes, they are very anti sex, especially women having sex, and heaven forbid she does it for pleasure, or recieves pleasure from it. It all links back to the idea that women should only have sex after marriage, and for the purpose of having children. The separation of sex from procreation is still very controversial for these people. Yep, and of course once she's married, she automatically wants tons of children. The reasoning is so illogical. You nailed it-women can now have a very, very good chance of having sex without the consequence of an unwanted pregnancy. But for these people, if you choose to have sex, you're choosing to have a child. This is what many of them think, and it's quite ridiculous in my opinion. And I totally agree, all I'd be able to think would be "is this going to result in a pregnancy? Am I going to have to deal with that?"
They just simply can't get the fact that there are women who just don't want or like children. It's an impossible idea to them. They want every baby to be born, even if that means it's unwanted, won't be cared for, and will likely live life that is pure hell. They care about the embryo/fetus, not the baby, and certainly not the woman. They see women as being the submissive partners to men, including sexually. The idea of women enjoying sex w/o consequence and having tons of it is horrifying to say the least to some of these people. And of course the woman is the slut, the man is the stud. I totally get where you're coming from, I feel completely the same way. It just comes down to old fashioned, romanticized ideals that these people have, and that they view women as tools to bear children and please their husbands, and women shouldn't have premarital sex, and should ALWAYS be willing to raise a child.
I hope I was able to answer any questions you may have had, although I just elaborated on what you said; you got everything perfectly. It's sexism, and it's absolutely unjustified, and we'll just have to let these people continue thinking this way, while more realistic people pave the way for a better future for women and children.
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QUESTION: Wow, it is SO refreshing to have a conversation with someone who feels as strongly as I do about this issue. The mere thought of someone thinking they have the right to tell me what to do with my body is infuriating to me. Why don't they mind their own business?! I don't know what's worse. Male anti abortionists or female ones. How can a woman not support the right of other women to choose? And how dare a man, who will NEVER know what it's like to be in that situation judge a woman? Sorry for the little rant there. LOL
I got into a heated argument the other day with my sisters boyfriend. I can't stand him. He is such a chauvenist pig. He has already said that he expect Mary(who is quite bright) to give up her career when they get married and "make a nice home" for him and their children. Yuck.
Anyway, both of them are anti-abortion, and even volunteer for the local "Right to Life Association". We got onto the subject of rape, and they were like "well, I can totally understand why a woman would not want to keep that child, but she can just give it up for adoption. There are a lot of couples out there who can't have children of their own and want to adopt".
The adoption argument is such a popular one. How do you respond to that? I said it wasn't up to me or any other women to bear children for other people to adopt, and they called me "selfish" and "cold-hearted". Also, they always talk about all these couples who want to adopt. Why then are there so many children who don't have a good home? THat is what I want to know. Children who are shuffled from foster home to foster home, and never have any stability. Also, she would still have to go through the pregnancy and deliver the baby. That would be very traumatic. Their response was "it's only nine months".
And I said "what if she doesn't feel like she can give up her child, but she's poor and can't afford to provide for it". And they went on and on about all the resources that are out there(i.e. welfare, public housing, shelters, places where you can free food etc). But there are a lot of people living in poverty, and there are only so many resources to go around. And some people don't want to raise their kids on welfare. They want something better for them.
TO be honest, I feel like I lost the debate. They had a few of their friends there too, and they were all involved in anti-abortion stuff. And they were kind of intimidating. Me and my friend Kristen are pro-choice, and we were trying to get our points across, but they were being all mean. They said our arguments were "unoriginal" and "reduntant" and they had heard them all before. And that girls like us are growing up with a sense of entitlement(we want a career and everything) and don't think about anyone else. We are both about to graduate from high school, and both of us want to go on to college and have careers. To be honest, I don't even know if I want kids. And if I do, I only want one once I already have a career and everyhing.
Anyway, have you ever tried to discuss this with these people? They are really intimidating. This one guy was all red in the face and shouting at the top of his lungs. Talking about how the little baby is torn to pieces in the mother's womb. And he said that a fetus is just a tiny little person who hasn't been born yet. And no matter how bad his/her life may be they deserve a chance.
My boyfriend(whom I love very much) has been in and out of trouble with the law since he was THIRTEEN! He smokes, drinks heavily and has experimented with drugs. He's got a good heart deep down, but he jsut never had anyone who gave a damn about him. His mother abandoned him and his little brother when he was just two(she is a crack addict living in the projects now) and he was abused by his step-mother and molested by his mother's boyfriend. It's just awful. he is sitting in prison AGAIN now, and looking at two years. He is so smart and could have been somebody. I said that and my sister said "Well let's just be grateful his mother didn't think like you, or else he wouldn't even be here. Are you saying that he should have been aborted?"
It made me feel quite bad, but that wasn't what I was saying. I just meant that I think his life would have turned out differently if he had parents who cared about him, and grew up in a loving and stable home.
Anyway, I will stop rambling now. Hope you don't mind. i appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and answer my questions. Thanks.
Tricia
Answer Always feel free to rant. I need to do it many times a week, just about abortion :P Yea, it's the "I'm not going to get an abortion, no other woman should either!" attitude. And it's dumb.
"It's only 9 months." Wow. 9 months of giving up your body, having a parasite suck up all your nutrients, and can cause you great physical and emotional pain. Oh, and if the child ever learns it was the product of rape? I don't think I would do too well if I were to be told that. 9 months is a long time. Almost a year, considering birth happens in the 10th month, if I'm not mistaken. All that time, just to go through the pain of labor, reliving your rape, then surrendering the baby to someone else. That's a whole lot for one woman to deal with. And if that baby isn't white, you can bet it's likeliness of getting adopted shoots WAAAY down. Maybe if/when your sister ever goes through a pregnancy, her opinion will shift. Even going through a pregnancy you really want can be painful and difficult. If people refuse to see just how much of a violation it is to force someone to give up their body, when we don't even require inmates on death row to give blood, then i don't know what further I can say. The psychology behind a victim's experience is complex, I don't know too much, but living with a constant reminder? That's disgusting to force another to go through such a thing.
Yes. Welfare isn't handed out like candy, which is what a lot of anti-choicers would like to think. Those on welfare live below the poverty line. The most anti-abortion people are also those taking away financial resources form women who would like to keep the pregnancy. The care about the fetus/embryo, not the baby. Like Bush's voting against the child health care bill. How much can you like children if you're going to deny them health care? But yeah, those resources are sparse and hard to come by. And definitely, many would rather raise their kid in a more financially stable situation.
I admire you and your friend for arguing back; it's an intimidating and difficult subject to debate on, especially against a whole group. Those are some sexist views they have, Just because they want to be financially dependent on their husband for the rest of their life doesn't mean you want to. Also, when both parents work, the standard of living goes up, therefore giving a better life to the kid(s).
I used to try my best to steer clear of debating with these people, because it's such an emotional issue. I always feel like they want me to be property, that I'm nothing more than a uterus to them. But as I learn more and more about abortion, pro-choice laws, birth control, i find arguing back easier. Like when you learn that the states with the most anti-abortion laws have the highest infant mortality rates, you got something. But yeah, I guess they're just never going to look deeper into the issue. And the fetus being "torn apart"? In late term abortions, yes, they are taken apart, so it won't trigger the woman into labor, but 90% of abortions are done by sucking out the tissue. I think it's just them not even taking a minute to think about the woman's life. She's the one who will care for the baby, raise it, provide for it. If they want unwanted to children to be born, then I expect to see each and every single one of them adopting children, and many of them.
That's horrible, what happened to your boyfriend. He was born into an awful situation, and the odds were definitely against him. I agree, if he had a mother, or parents who wanted him and cared for him, he'd have a lot easier of a time.Instead of being born into a family where he was horribly abused and mistreated he would have been born into one where he would have gotten a better chance at starting off well. I hope he does ok, and is able to overcome what's happened to him, although i can't even imagine having to go through so much.
Thanks for writing me! it's always excellent to have someone who shares these views, and it's great to be able to talk with you. Always feel free to message me, I'm here. And I hope everything goes well for you and your boyfriend. If you ever need to rant, I'm here :)
