Expert: Deborah - 12/16/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hi Deborah. My name is Angela. I have been dating a man that I really like for the last couple of months, and things were going well. He is very thoughtful, romantic, intelligent, charming etc I really enjoy his company. The other day over dinner the subject of abortion came up, and I was shocked to learn that he is anti choice (even in cases of rape and incest!). From previous conversations we've had he seemed fairly liberal and progressive (i.e. he is against the war, is in favor of same-sex marriage etc) so I just assumed he'd be pro-choice. He spoke with such vitriol about how "selfish" and "irresponsible" women who have had abortions are that I didn't have the courage to tell him that I had one in college. It was for what he would consider an especially "selfish" reason. Because I wanted to finish school and pursue an exciting career in journalism. Also, I'm not really sure I want children. It's a big commitment, and let's face it. It's the woman who ends up making most of the sacrifices. And I know that things can go wrong during pregnancy. My older sister is young and healthy, and she almost died during child birth. It was something the doctor never predicted! She ended up getting a blood clot in her lung. It was scary! And I was there with her during the birth, and she was just in terrible pain. For weeks afterwards, she was unable to sit down! I'm not sure I want to go through that, although I know that sounds selfish.

Anyway, I think he feels so strongly because his mom was a teenager when she got pregnant with him. And he said what if my mom had been "selfish" and decided to abort me? I don't mean to sound intolerant, but I don't think I can overlook this! Generally I am pretty open-minded and tolerant of differences of opinion. I don't believe that my partner and I have to share the same opinions on EVERY topic. But this is something I feel VERY strongly about. And to be honest, it pisses me off that a man feels that he has the right to judge a woman. He will NEVER know what it's like to be in that situation. All he has to do is pull up his pants and walk away! And I thought it especially cruel that he doesn't even make an exception in the case of rape, because "it's not the child's fault". I talked to one of my girlfriends and she thinks I'm making a big deal out of nothing. But I feel that his views on abortion are part of a larger picture. I don't feel that one can be anti choice and still have respect for women. On some level (even if it is subconsious) he believes that it is a woman's duty to have babies, and that a woman's most rewarding and important role is that of a mother. Any woman who rejects that role must be "selfish". Can you share your thoughts with me please? Would you date a man who didn't support your right to choose? Thanks.

Angela

ANSWER: Dear Angela,

I could never date a man with those beliefs.  Basically, and you already know this, but being anti-choice means you do not view women as being equally human.  You have to view women as "lesser" to want to take away their control over their own bodies.  A man would NEVER allow the government or any outside agency to take control over his body away from him.

As for his specific argument about his own mother (and I think you are right, his views are based on his personal experience and nothing more) I would say this to him, if you ever decide to bring up the subject:

"I understand that you feel strongly that abortion should be illegal of your mother being a teenage mom when she had you.  However, isn't it better to know that your mom chose to have you because she wanted you, rather than because she was FORCED TO against her will?"

Here are some other things I would bring up.  First, pregnancy, labor and childbirth all involve risk. This is from my blog and it is testimony on the passing of Plan B Emergency Contraception:

"Next is an excerpt from the testimony of Dr. Grimes, who is Vice President of Biomedical Affairs at Family Health International.  He is clinical professor at the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine, and he is one of the few OB-GYNs in the country who are double Boarded in preventive medicine and in OB-GYN.

DR. GRIMES:  Thank you, and good morning.

         I begin with a most important message first, and that is that easy access to emergency contraception improves the health and lives of women.  It does this through preventing unintended pregnancy with its serious consequences.

         For many women the news of a pregnancy is a wonderful gift.  Such women readily and happily accept the discomforts, inconvenience, expense, and risks involved with childbearing.  Not so for women with an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy.  What are the medical consequences for them?

         The traditional way in which we assess the safety of childbearing around the world is the maternal mortality rate.  Despite impressive progress in recent decades, childbearing remains risky business in the United States of America.

         These are the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.  As of 1999, the reported maternal mortality rate was 13 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births.  If one corrects this for under reporting of such deaths, the true figure is closer to 20 deaths per 100,000 live births.

         What this means is that during the past decade over 4,000 American women have died from pregnancy and child bearing.

         But the real human suffering is not in deaths but in morbidity, complications of pregnancy, and childbearing today remains a very complex process.  Again, the most recent data from the CDC in Atlanta are on the screen.  Forty-three percent of all U.S. women have one or more complications during the hospitalization at which they deliver, such as hemorrhage, infection, obstetrical tears.  Indeed, one in four American women are hospitalized at least once during the pregnancy but before delivery for complications of the pregnancy, such as threatened labor, preeclampsia, urinary tract infection.

         Now, if you multiply these percents times the millions of pregnancies every year in the U.S., you can see how huge is this burden of suffering, and many of these complications are severe and long lasting.

         Now, in medicine we oftentimes have to make difficult decisions between competing risks and benefits.  Not so here, not so.  Seldom in medicine do we see the scale so forcibly tipped and permanently tipped in favor of benefit, "
Plan B FDA Testimony and Why The Package Insert Says it Interferes With Implantation
http://wingnutwatch.typepad.com/wingnutwatch/2009/12/plan-b-fda-testomony-and-wh


Here are some other blog posts to read on this subject:

Suffering and Risk in Pregnancy Often Missing in Abortion Debate
http://wingnutwatch.typepad.com/wingnutwatch/2008/08/suffering-and-r.html

Why I Am Pro-Choice
http://wingnutwatch.typepad.com/wingnutwatch/2009/11/why-i-am-pro-choice-second-

Good luck,

Deb

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Deborah. I wanted to give you an update. I did end up making the decision not to go out with him again. I initially felt good about my decision, but I've been getting a lot of backlash from my family/friends over it. My best friend was upset with me because she said I was being "intolerant" and said that I was never going to find someone who agreed with me on everything. She said he was a really great guy with a lot of potential, and that that was a "stupid" reason to break up with a man. She also went on to say that it was a sign of maturity when two adults could agree to disagree, and that that is a part of a healthy relationship. Normally I would agree, but this is a very important issue to me. I use contraception of course, but what if an accident happened? Do I really want to be with someone who is going to pressure me into  making a decision I don't feel is right for me, or who isn't going to support me in ending the pregnancy? Do you agree that men who are anti choice don't respect women? My friend said that was ridiculous. That a man can respect women and still feel that abortion is wrong. But basically he is saying that a woman's life is less valuable than that of a fetus. That doesn't seem right to me. Also, when I told him that pregnancy can be very uncomfortable(even painful!) he balked at that. And that is not an uncommon reaction actually. Don't people know this? I don't understand why everyone thinks that pregnancy is this wonderful and miraculous thing. It quite frankly seems like torture to me, but I don't like to express those feelings out loud because then people think I am "selfish" or that there is something wrong with me. I did have one question though, regarding pain during childbirth. People will often say that childbirth is not as painful as it once was because of the epidural. Does the epidural completely eliminate (or just lessen) a woman's pain? And are there some women who can not have an epidural? I think it's important to know this information, so that I am better equipped to debate the issue in the future. Also, when I point out side effects of pregnany (i.e. nausea, frequent urination, yeast infections) people will either say those are just minor and temporary health conditions or will say that there are medications that can treat them (like Diflucan for a yeast infection and gravol for nausea). Thank you.

Sincerely,

Angela

Answer
Dear Angela,

I had a baby.  Pregnancy was torture.  I was nauseous and violently vomiting so badly my husband had to take a leave of absence from work to care for me.  I also had to be rushed to the hospital because of a blockage in my digestive tract, because of the pressure of the pregnancy itself on it.

After I made it through 9 months of hell, the actual labor was horrific. I am not one of these brave people who declined pain medications.  I wanted EVERYTHING.  NO, they don't get rid of the pain, they barely make a dent in it.  The delivery felt like someone put a knife in me and ripped my vagina.  I was screaming in agony. And this was a wanted, planned pregnancy.  Can you imagine if this was FORCED on people???  Can you imagine FORCING young teen girls through this???  Can you imagine forcing your own daughter through this?  I have a daughter who is 12 now.  I would literally threaten someone's life if they told me they were going to force my child through all of that horrific pain and agony.

Read this and follow the url to read the rest:

Suffering and Risk in Pregnancy Often Missing in Abortion Debate

In the abortion debate, an often under appreciated factor is just how dangerous and debilitating  pregnancy and childbirth actually are.  After considering the evidence detailed in this post , it makes it even harder to believe that there are people in the world who seek to force all girls and women to endure pregnancy after pregnancy, regardless of the immense suffering involved.  Here is an excerpt:

   "Fully 42 percent of all pregnancies suffer complications –in rich and poor countries alike –and in 15 percent of all pregnancies, the complications are life-threatening."

read the rest here, and be sure to follow the link in the post to read more important information:
http://wingnutwatch.typepad.com/wingnutwatch/2008/08/suffering-and-r.html

Best wishes,

Deb