Expert: Kriss Mitchell, M.Ed, CRC, CNHP - 3/4/2009

Question
follow up question from the below URL:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Abusive-Relationships-1663/2009/3/parent-abuse.htm

Thank you for your first response and your encrouagement. This is really hard becuase I do love my fiancee and his daughter very much.




One of the things I have noticed is that her behavior changes depending on who she is with. If her father is not around and it is just she and I, she will sit and stare at the wall and not move, which I think is just a different kind of attempt at intimidation.  I do care about her behavior, because I care for her, and it is sad that she is hurting herself like this, but there is nothing I can do about it and it is a problem she has to learn to deal with, she is old enough to take some ownership for resolving her own emotional conflicts and I know I would do her no favors trying to beg her to talk to me so I could help her… as a matter of fact I think that may be what she wants….. I have seen her do that staring at a wall thing to some other people such as teachers… if she honestly wanted my help or guidance and asked for it I would help her… but if she wants to ignore me then that is her choice and so be it, it is sad but her loss.  I know you cannot help someone who does not want or see that they need help.

On the other hand if it is her father around, she will get close to him and whisper nasty things to him, and stomp around, and throw his things around and so on. She made the error once about a year ago of breaking something that was mine in my home and I made her clean up her mess, and replace it, and I told her if it ever happened again I would call the police and press charges against her for the destruction of my property.  Never once sense that day has she even once touched one thing of mine, and it was actually then that she suddenly decided that she hated me above all other people in the world and she did not want her father speaking with me ever again, come to think of it I think that day was the last time she has ever spoken to me. She has never told him really exactly why though she just now says I am strange and there is just something wrong with me.

That was actually what started the little alarm in my head going off, if he and I were doing something she would say or text things to him like you are so stupid she could not really like you, or care about, or you are to ugly for anyone to ever want to be around you any way, you need to just stay away from her, and I have heard abusive spouses say those exact same kinds of things.  It reminded me of that attempt abusers make to ensure their victim is beaten down and made to feel worthless then isolated alone and vulnerable they have no belief in themselves or support system if they try to escape.  

I was just shocked to think that this was what a little girl of 16 could be doing, and I could not believe that she was consciously aware of what she was doing, but the way she changes tactics and behaviors depending on who she is dealing with and what is happening makes me and others think she may very well be aware of what she is doing.   

There are some serious problems with her mother and father’s communication. Her mother has always been as adversarial as possible to her father, and therefore they have never communicated or coordinated any parenting techniques. (Not to go on a tangent but her mother was diagnosed with a personality disorder and has actually been in and out of treatment most of her life and was not in her daughter’s life much until she was about 6 or 7), it is very hard to know with any 100% accuracy what is happening with her behavior at her mother’s home, but from what I have heard it sounds like she is trying the same behaviors and finding that they do not work, for example she is upset now and she has asked for money from her Father to pay her mother for something she broke, and I believe she is not going to be allowed to get her driver’s license until she makes restitution (and oddly she said her mother deserved it and it was her mother’s fault that she broke her things, because her mother was being so mean to her and not getting her the things she wanted at the store) and just the other day she called her father saying now she wanted to move back with him because her mother is so mean to her.  It really really scares me to think that maybe she is actually thinking these things through and making conscious decisions to manipulate and or hurt others to get things that she wants.

My fiancé and I are now seeing a therapist.  We cannot take his daughter her mother refuses to allow it.  She had previously been seeing a therapist who said she had an anxiety disorder, and possibly oppositional defiance disorder. She was taking medication for the anxiety issue and actually did seem to be doing a bit better about talking about things but when she went to live with her mother she stopped all medication and treatment. After hearing from both of us our therapist also seems to think that it is possible that his daughter may be quite aware of what she is doing, but that really makes us both sick to our stomachs.  I think we both feel that some how we must have failed her miserably if she now feels the need to hurt and abuse other people… so then to some extent we must bare some responsibility for this, I think the difference for me though is that I look and I say yeap I should have done many things differently but that is in the past and I can not do anything about it, so now I have to look at how things are and use the present to guide my decisions regarding the future, whereas my fiancé he just sort of gets stuck in saying this is my fault I am a failure and a horrible father and so she can do what ever she wants to me I deserve to be treated like dirt.

He makes excuses for her, like he says her charging up his credit card was not really bad because she only used a couple hundred dollars, and he had given her the card to use once in the past, so technically she was allowed to use it, or when she tears things of his up he will act as if it is inconsequential and it was no big deal, or he will actually say well I just made her so upset she had to do something to vent (which is what she says to him) or even worse he has a new one now that really scares me, he says maybe this drive that she has will be good for her and help her to always attain her goals and she will be a strong woman. That new one really frightens me does it mean that he could be looking at this behavior pattern as a good healthy or helpful thing?  

I feel really bad because sometimes I want to just shake him and scream at him that how we feel about this right now is not the issue, our guilt or responsibility does not matter at the moment, I want to grab him and say you know if we lit the house on fire ourselves or the house caught on fire by a lightening strike it does not matter… because it is on fire now… and if we sit here saying oh it is my fault it is on fire…and do not start getting some water on it, then it is all gong to burn down, and if we do not do something to stop this behavior now she is going to grow into a woman who takes advantage of and hurts other people to get what she wants and I can not help put a person like that out in the world, but then I think I can’t do that to him because he is hurting so much already my being angry with him would just make things worse. I worry about them both. As much as is hurts me and eats at me I have been trying to distance myself from them both as of late, because if I do not it drains me. I mean gosh look at all I have written even here?  He is seeing the therapist on his own I have not had time yet, and yes I know I have to make time if I want to stay Ok and to try to work through this with him.  

I would like your opinion on, if you think a 16 year old girl could really be capable of consciously trying to employ abuse tactics to manipulate people?  If she is doing that is their any hope that the behavior can be modified or changed through actions taken by parents? And am I out of line for being upset or angry with my fiancée for not doing anything to help correct the situation?  

Answer
Dear Kate,
You mentioned that mom was diagnosed with a personality disorder, which is a huge part of this puzzle.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say it is probably Borderline PD.  If that is the case, this 16 year old has one of two things going on.

One, she may have the disorder.  They don't diagnose children with personality disorders under the age of 18, but that doesn't mean that when you are dealing with someone who has this kind of behavior going on that doesn't come in to play eventually.  The other thing is that if children grow up with a parent who has BPD, they have to see the world through mom's eyes in order to keep some semblance of peace.  That means their behavior will mimic BPD.  They learn what they have to do to survive and that isn't always pretty.

People with BPD misinterpret the world, live in chaos and connect through anger.  They don't understand why they can't get along with people and see most things as everyone else's fault.  They are very manipulative, impulsive, abusive, moody, angry and often have addiction problems.  They also have no sense of identity, but in a teenager that can be the case because of their age also.

Most husbands who are married to women with BPD learn to be passive.  They can't win so they do nothing.  This sounds like your fiance.  

Kate, if this is what you are dealing with, you will never win and neither will he.  Without years of therapy, there is little hope that this will get better.  Most families with a BPD member end up being estranged from that family member all together.  You cannot have a successful relationship with someone who has this disorder.  They are never satisfied and the crazy makers will drive you to distraction.

I've gone out on a limb and assumed something here and hope that I made the correct assumption.  You asked if there is any hope for change by action taken by the parents.  If this is what I think it is the answer is no.  It will take years of professional work with her to make it tolerable.  I don't blame you for being upset or angry with your fiance, but he has probably learned the hard way that he can't do anything about it so just doesn't try.  He would be right.  

That is not to say that a person has to lay down and be a doormat.  However the alternative is to set boundaries, like you did, and have them be misinterpreted.  She sounds as though she responds to the use of boundaries, but even though setting them is the most appropriate thing to do, it may not achieve the results that you are looking for.

This girl needs professional help and the only option you may have is to get her involved in the legal system where they can mandate an assessment and get her into treatment.  You may want to talk with a court advocate about that however since I am not an expert on the legal system.  

I'm sorry the news isn't better, but personality disorders are nasty business and there is no medication that helps them.  Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

Blessings,  Kriss