AboutJoseph Lee O. Expertise Greetings to you! Having permanently recovered from chronic alcoholism by “taking The Steps” the original A.A. way, I now understand what makes people “tick”. I can explain the physical, mental and emotional aspects of an alcoholic’s inherent condition, and I can show why a spiritual solution is required in order to truly recover.
Beginning in 1981, I have spent a great amount of time studying “Alcoholics Anonymous”, the book, as if my very own life depended upon doing so, and it did, and I have spent nearly an equal amount of time listening and sharing in many thousands of fellowship meetings. I am often able to “read between the lines” and help others to see things not always immediately obvious, and I can usually draw from my own experience while tying everything back to the beginning of personal recovery: One-to-one sharing at Step One.
Experience The oldest of four boys, I grew up in a religious, Midwestern-USA family. Unable to decline a friendly offer in a social setting, I had “no effective mental defense against the first drink” (“Alcoholics Anonymous”, the book, page 43), and I took my very first drink ever at age 24 ... and within minutes I had become obsessed with getting more of the effect that glass of wine had given me. Alcohol had just done something *for* me that nothing else had ever done: it had seemingly “fixed” something inside me I had not even known was broken.
Over the next seven years of my life, I "drank up" just about everything and everyone ever meaning very much to me at all, and I eventually abandoned my young family so I could drink and smoke pot at will. For, you see, alcohol was giving me a good-to-go feeling about life and a sense of control I had never before had, and at least in the early days of my drinking it could kill just about any pain that might ever come along.
At age 31, however, circumstances and consequences had piled up all around me in ways that were making it obvious I could not continue on much longer. Life had become too tough, my pains had grown too great and the risks of continuing to drink had become too glaring for me to be able to continue believing I might ultimately survive the drop to the bottom of the pit. I still wanted to be able to drink safely as I had in days past, but something had seemingly “taken over” my drinking and was dragging me completely out-of-control after just one drink. So, and even while scared-to-death over the thought of facing life alcohol-free, I decided to stop drinking altogether ... and quickly discovered I could not. No matter what I said or thought or did even only “one day at a time”, I always ended up drinking once again. Where I wanted to drink safely, I could not, and neither could I quit and stay sober for long at all ... and such is the physical “allergy” (where one drink takes another) coupled with the mental-emotional obsession for the soothing effect of alcohol that eventually kills most chronic alcoholics ...
... but then I met a small group of people who personally understood my deadly dilemma – my powerlessness – and those same folks were quite able to propose a permanent solution. I accepted, of course, and today it is as if I “could not drink even if [I] would” (“Alcoholics Anonymous”, the book, page 57), and for that I now remain unendingly grateful.
Expert: Joseph Lee O. Date: 7/19/2008 Subject: Is it possible to have arelationship with a recovering alcoholic?
Question QUESTION: Hi Joseph, My situation is this. I have been with my boyfriend, and now father of our almost 3 year old son, for 5 years. He is just barely seven years sober-which is great, however he is a very unhappy individual as a rule. We moved in together just before our son was born, however when he was just 8mo old, we had and explosive fight, and there was domestic battering that took place. He went to jail-and I moved out, only to return a few months later, because I believed he was serious about getting help and maintaining a family together. I will add that we have had a tumultuous relationship this entire time. On my side of the street is I was married to an alcoholic who of course put my family through hell. I had barely begun Alanon when we met. I have been going to Alanon for five years off and on and just recently "get it" if you will. I am finally ready to do the steps, and am trying to take the time for myself to discover how to be a healthier person, partner, mother, friend. I am also drawing closer to God to guide me as well. My boyfriend has attended AA, but he just has no serenity, no joy. He seems to believe that he is ok and the rest of us are all screwed up. Which ok, perhaps I am to a degree, but I am trying to be happy and get heathier through the program and my faith. He says he wants us to be together again. Living in the same house, but honestly the way he acts I cannot imagine ever moving in with him. There is no tenderness. IT's like he doesn't know how to put the needs of others above his own. He has very irrational thought patterns, and mood swings which we can all do from time to time, but even when I try and assure him that his thinking is wrong-he just continues to fill in the blanks with what his brain tells him. Its so frustrating. He has always been this guy that wants it all his way, and for a number of years I was very compliant-Now I see that if I want my life to look more to my liking I have to take steps to make it that way. Plus nothing I have done that he expected of me made one single bit of difference. It's like go bring back the broom of the wicked witch and then I will grant your requests. Well I did, and he didn't expect it, and no he is no happier. The easy simple solution would be just part company and try and "co-parent" our son, however I am either stupid,or stubborn, but I want so much to give our son both parents even if it takes some time to do that. Unfortunately, I have a partner who seems to stick it out with me, but doesn't want to look at himself and say, maybe she has a point. At this time he has not had a sponsor for over a year. I know from just my early step work how important it is to have a good sponsor to keep you focused on yourself. I hope this makes some sort of sense to you. Thank you for taking the time to consider my question. I will look forward to reading your answer! Best to you, Karen
ANSWER: Greetings to you, Karen.
You have asked:
Is it possible to have a relationship with a recovering alcoholic?
Yes, if the alcoholic is truly recovering, as in becoming recovered via the original A.A. experience. However, dealing with the typical recovering-ing-ing-ing alcoholic in today's AA is an entirely different deal.
You have written:
>> I have been with my boyfriend ... [and we now have a son who is nearly three] ...
>> I want so much to give our son both parents ...
The wholeness you are looking for there will be inseparably dependent upon the child’s father experiencing spiritual transformation and committing himself to doing what is best (right) for the child.
>> He is just barely seven years sober ... a very unhappy individual as a rule.
That is because sobriety does not fix the spiritual sickness behind alcoholism.
>> We moved in together ...
>> He went to jail ...
>> I believed he was serious about getting help and maintaining a family together.
It is very possible he actually was (and maybe even still is) quite serious about those things, but he has never been shown the original-A.A. program of recovery ... and now he has seven years of sobriety to seemingly “prove” whatever else he has been doing so far is just fine ... and all of that amounts to a very grievous situation. Have you ever heard the parable of the sower?
Matthew 13:3-9: “See, the sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell by the wayside, and the birds came and devoured them ...
Matthew 13:18-23: “Hear the parable of the sower: ‘When anyone hears the word and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown ...’”
Seven-or-so years ago, your son’s father experienced a bit of humility and had a “seed of hope” planted in his heart, but there was no one there to help him understand and truly know what to do ... and then “the lower power” came along and offered a poisoned apple that appeared pleasing and tasted really great at the time.
>> I have been going to Alanon for five years off and on and just recently "get it" if you will.
You are presently in a very similar and precarious spot. You know you need to change, and you are willing to do whatever you must ... but you are being offered a poisoned apple. Listen closely here:
>> I am finally ready to do the steps ...
The Steps cannot be “done”. The Steps are to be taken, not “worked”:
“As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things (the essence of Step Two), we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we *took* other simple steps ...”
“Here are the steps we *took* ...” (“Alcoholics Anonymous”, the book, pages 46 and 59, emphasis added)
Instead, however, you are being told you need to “work” the Steps, as in “the utilitarian use of spiritual principles for personal gain” (my own expression). Doing that will feel good or even great at first if you do that, but you will ultimately find yourself just as you have already described:
>> ... a very unhappy individual as a rule.
You have written:
>> I ... am trying to take the time for myself to discover how to be a healthier person, partner, mother, friend ... also drawing closer to [G-d] to guide me as well.
The Steps are *not* a self-help program, and Yahuah does *not* help people who are still trying to help themselves any more than an auto manufacturer will come to your house and offer a bit of advice or encouragement while you are trying to rebuild the engine in your car. Rather, here is what the Steps are all about:
“This is the how and why of it. First of all, we had to quit playing [G-d, as while in any way depending upon ourselves for anything whatsoever]. It didn't work. Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, [G-d] was going to be our Director. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children. Most good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom ... [and] We thought well before taking this step [Three] making sure we were ready; that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to Him [by taking steps Four through Nine].” (pages 62 and 63)
>> I am trying to be happy and get healthier through the program and my faith.
In order for that to happen, the original experience shared in “Alcoholics Anonymous”, the book, must be followed ... and that cannot be found in today’s AA, Al-Anon or any other derivative of the original.
>> The easy simple solution would be just part company and try and "co-parent" our son ...
That would not be a solution at all.
Overall, here is where your son’s parents need to be together in order for him to ever have what The Creator of all would provide for him:
“Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power [to deliver], Thy Love [in provision], and Thy Way of life [in right fellowship and worship].” (page 63)
That is the experience of Exodus tied to Deuteronomy 4:10, and you can read a summation of that kind of witness bearing in chapter seven of the book of Acts.
Having only written a couple of pages here, I have not given full explanations or many details. However, the above at least points toward what is best and right for your son, and that is the Sinai experience of Step Three:
Our Heavenly Father's Power to deliver, His Love in provision, and His Way of life in right fellowship and worship.
Please know you are always welcomed to write as often and as much as you wish.
QUESTION: Wow, what an answer! I keep re-reading-so it looks like what you are saying is if he isn't seeking the spiritual healing, then I am going to be in a losing situation? He will never truly get better. I can see that he is sober, but that is it. There is no joy for him, and so no joy in our relationship. I can't begin to take on the responsibility for the whole of the relationship. There is where I feel stuck and depressed. He is so afraid, and I know that God is not going to leave me high and dry. He has promised me, all over the bible that he won't, and I have lived his miracles. It's funny you brought up that parable about the seed and the sower. He has brought that particular parable up numerous times. He just doesn't see it as it applies to him. (as you pointed out). I understand your point about taking the steps, and not working the steps. Working the steps are how I have heard it explained to me in the past. I don't want to bite the poison apple. My greatest challenge at the moment is as I set healthier boundaries, I need to detach when necessary, but do it in love. What is your opinion on the whole detachment with love. I am struggling with this. I thank you so much for responding to my letter. It is helping me and giving me much needed insight. I will look forward to hearing from you again!!!-Thank you-Karen
Answer Greetings again, Karen.
You have asked:
>> ... so it looks like what you are saying is if he isn't seeking the spiritual healing, then I am going to be in a losing situation?
A faith walk is never a losing situation, and your initial concern had to do with wanting your son to grow up in a two-parent family. So then, and overall:
Your child’s father will remain incapable of right headship in any house or home until he has experienced spiritual transformation. And of course, that can also be called “spiritual healing” or “restored to spiritual sanity”, if you will, as long as we remain in a proper context:
“... G-d had restored his sanity.
“What is this but a miracle of healing? Yet its elements are simple. Circumstances made him willing to believe. He humbly offered himself to his Maker - then he knew.
“Even so has G-d restored us all to our right minds ... Some of us grow into it more slowly. But He has come to all who have honestly sought Him.
“When we drew near to Him He disclosed Himself to us [via His Power to deliver, His Love in provision and His Way of life in right fellowship and worship (see Step three)]!” (“Alcoholics Anonymous”, the book, page 57)
That is the essence of the Sinai experience more recently passed along in the original A.A. experience, and that is what your son needs to be shown.
You have written:
>> I can't begin to take on the responsibility for the whole ...
>> There is where I feel stuck and depressed.
You likely already know you are quite far from being alone there, and you are certainly not expected to “do it all” by yourself. In fact, a woman’s inherent attributes and created role are along the specific line of being a crucial and vital helpmeet for a man committed to doing such right things, and neither can any man do that all by himself. To wit:
Genesis 2:18: “And Yahuah Elohim said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone, I am going to make a helper for him, as his counterpart.’”
Genesis 2:24: “For this cause [of not having to do anything alone], a man shall ... cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”
Or as you might have already heard (tongue-in-cheek): “The alleged ‘weaker sex’ is actually the stronger of the two because of the alleged stronger sex’s inherent weakness for the other!
>> I know [G-d] is not going to leave me high and dry. He has promised me, all over the bible that he won't, and I have lived his miracles.
We have been told we will never be forsaken or forgotten, but that does not mean we are guaranteed complete satisfaction of our natural instincts apart from full and right fellowship with others via YahSpirit. To elaborate just a bit:
Many years ago, I began studying “Alcoholics Anonymous”, the book, like very few people ever have. In the mid-‘80s, I purchased an 8-bit computer and learned an assembly language so I could thereafter type the “basic text” (up to page 164) onto a couple of disks and begin doing searches ... and before long, I was spending vast amounts of time following the word and context of “fellowship” throughout that book ... and I eventually ended up at the crux of the matter on page 152:
“Yes, there is a [sufficient] substitute [for alcohol] and it is vastly more than that. It is a fellowship in Alcoholics Anonymous. There you will find release from care, boredom and worry. Your imagination will be fired. Life will mean something at last. The most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead. Thus we find the fellowship, and so will you.”
Setting aside everything you have ever heard in any of today’s AA or Al-Anon meetings, take a few moments to go back and read that again, and for nothing more or other than what is actually and quite simply said to the sufferer:
“After getting your own small fellowship started (see page 163), you will find the fellowship that actually *anyone* can share (see Foreword to First Edition) within an autonomous fellowship of ‘anonymous alcoholics’ to be vastly more than a mere ‘sufficient substitute’ for alcohol (or anything else present and deadly) in your life or in the lives of others. Within that shared ‘Fellowship of the Spirit’ (see page 164), you will find release from care, boredom and worry. Your imagination will be fired. Life will mean something at last. The most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead. Thus we find the fellowship, and so will you.” (partially paraphrased)
Please note: The above is not at all compatible with the following from a later “Foreword to Second Edition”:
“Our earliest printing voiced the hope ‘that every alcoholic who journeys will find the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous at his destination.’”
No, no, no – not at all true! Here is what was actually first said:
“... to see *a* fellowship grow up about you, to have a host of friends - this is an experience you must not miss. We know you will not want to miss it.” (page 89)
“Some day we hope that every alcoholic who journeys will find *a* Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous at his destination.” (page 162, emphasis added)
The earliest A.A. members surely did envision sharing their permanent-recovery spiritual experience around the world, but they never in any way ever intended to begin any kind of organizational anything at all like today’s “AA”!
Now bringing that back along to the matter at hand:
“... release from care, boredom and worry. Your imagination will be fired. Life will mean something at last. The most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead. Thus we find the [spiritual] fellowship [and unity or 'family' we share in the Fellowship of the Spirit], and so will you.”
In simple words: Yahuah’s “power to deliver” (release from care, boredom and worry) and having life actually mean something at last are things that can only be found within right fellowship with others under His direction. Yes, it is still possible for one or more of us to nevertheless “endure to the end where salvation awaits us” (Matthew 24:13) all alone, if necessary, but we are now clearly learning that the “endure” part of that is not going to be pleasantly easy. So then, the very best you can do for your son at the moment is to be sure your own life is bearing witness of Sinai (Step Three and beyond) while praying cover over him so that he might one day come to know the very same experience even in the absence of an earthly father who should have led the way.
>> I understand your point about taking the steps, and not working the steps.
I am glad you see that without being offended. In the early ‘80s, I attended my first “Charlie and Joe” Big Book seminar. During one of the sessions on Step Four, a light came on and I came to understand the “how” of “how it works”. Within a few moments, however, and this was definitely not Charlie or Joe’s fault, the ego began trying to run off on its own with that information, saying something like, “Well! Now that I know that, who really needs ‘God’ in the picture at all, eh?!” I immediately knew “the birds” were all around me, so I very purposefully sat right there in that seat without talking to anyone for the remainder of that afternoon – Stand still and they will not eat you, eh?! – until that insane idea of self-management had completely died out. In today’s AA, however, the idea of self-help as allegedly empowered by way of self-knowledge runs disastrously rampant.
>> My greatest challenge at the moment is as I set healthier boundaries ...
It is not your job or your place to set any boundaries at all. Abba-Father has already done all of that, and we only need to learn what they are and to obey.
>> I need to detach when necessary, but do it in love.
>> What is your opinion on the whole detachment with love.
It is *always* necessary to detach from anything and everything that is of this world, and the best way to do that “lovingly” is usually (or at least often) to simply and silently turn and walk away. Other people do not need you or me to go right on about doing whatever it is they do, and they cannot have any power or influence over us unless we give that to them. Because your own personality and mine are likely different, you might have to develop your own way of doing that. Overall, however, the underlying principles will still be the very same:
To Abba-Father: “Father, my only desire is to only delight only in you.”
To all others: “I only do what I know to be right and true before Almighty Yahuah, and that is all I do ... and now you know I only do that.”
Or in different words as we begin to learn around Steps Ten and Eleven:
“Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of G-d's will [and *nobody* else’s] into *all* of our activities. ‘How can I best serve Thee [and neither ‘me’ nor ‘he’] - Thy will (not mine) be done.’ These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.” (page 85, insight and emphasis added)
