Expert: Joseph Lee O. - 1/18/2005

Question
I am sorry that I didn't call over the weekend.
I didn't know using AllExperts would lead to actual contact
with the experts, plus, my wife does not know we are having
these conversations.
I would like to continue with on-line talk for now, OK?
My wife again said she would limit her drinking to only the weekends.
She has said this in the past, and it never happens.
She seems so genuine when she makes these promises, but they never last.
I don't know what to believe anymore.


Followup To
Question -
Thanks again for your help.
So, tell me, what should I do?
You had said to not push her too much,
so, should I just keep quiet, sit back,
and watch her slowly self-descruct?

Followup To
Question -
Hi again.
I have more questions, if that's OK.
Do all alcoholics have to hit "rock bottom"
before they finally realize they need to quit?
If so, may I ask, what was "rock bottom" for you?
Thanks again.
I'm glad I finally found someone to "talk" to about this.

Followup To
Question -
Thank you.
Yes, I'd like to ask another question.
My wife drinks whenever she is sad/depressed, or upset/nervous.
When she is feeling fine, she doesn't drink.
Is she an alcoholic?

Followup To
Question -
Hi.
Do you know the difference
between Type A and Type B
alcoholics?
Thanks.
~Art

Answer -
Greetings to you, Art!

You have asked, "Do you know the difference between Type A and Type B alcoholics?"

By those terms, no, I do not.  However, I can at least imagine there is something along those lines in the book called "Alcoholics Anonymous", and I would offer these insights to you:

"The classification of alcoholics seems most difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book.  There are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable.  We are all familiar with this type.  They are always 'going on the wagon for keeps.'  They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision.
"There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink.  He plans various ways of drinking.  He changes his brand or environment.  There is the type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink without danger.  There is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps, the least understood by his friends, and about whom a whole chapter could be written.
"Then there are types entirely normal in every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them.  They are often able, intelligent, friendly people.
"All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving.  This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a distinct entity.  It has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar, permanently eradicated.  The only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence" (excerpted from "Alcoholics Anonymous", "The Doctor's Opinion").

"How many times people have said to us: 'I can take it or leave it alone.  Why can't he?'  'Why don't you drink like a gentleman or quit?'  'That fellow can't handle his liquor.'  'Why don't you try beer and wine?'  'Lay off the hard stuff.'  'His will power must be weak.'  'He could stop if he wanted to.'  'She's such a sweet girl, I should think he'd stop for her sake.'  'The doctor told him that if he ever drank again it would kill him, but there he is all lit up again.'
"Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time.  Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding.  We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.
"Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it.  They can take it or leave it alone.
"Then we have a certain type of hard drinker.  He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally.  It may cause him to die a few years before his time.  If a sufficiently strong reason - ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor - becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.
"But what about the real alcoholic?  He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink" ("Alcoholics Anonymous", pages 20-21).

Are these the kinds of things you are wondering about?

I welcome you to write again ...

Lee/Joe O.
Answer -
Greetings again, Art.

> My wife drinks whenever she is sad/depressed, or upset/nervous.
> When she is feeling fine, she doesn't drink.
> Is she an alcoholic?

As I have experienced and come to understand alcoholism, an alcoholic is someone who eventually begins losing all control when drinking, and who, sooner-or-later, arrives at a point where s/he cannot stay sober after stopping once again.

With that particular description and yours of her in mind, I would cautiously venture to say your wife could at least be a potential alcoholic – a chronic, situational drinker – and if so, she appears to be one who has yet to experience the later stages of alcoholism.  However:

“To be gravely affected, one does not necessarily have to drink a long time nor take the quantities some of us have.  This is particularly true of women.  Potential female alcoholics often turn into the real thing and are gone beyond recall in a few years.  Certain drinkers, who would be greatly insulted if called alcoholics, are astonished at their inability to stop.  We, who are familiar with the symptoms, see large numbers of potential alcoholics ... everywhere.” (“A.A.”, page 33).

If I might ask:

Does your wife ever express, or has she ever expressed any concern of her own in relation to her drinking?

Has your wife ever either talked about or tried to “quit” (for a time, or for good)?

This next one might sound like a ridiculous question, Art, but stick with me for a few more moments:

Why do you ask if your wife is an alcoholic?

Whatever you do, please do not in any way use against her anything I have said.  Depression and anxiety (leading to drinking) are issues/problems that can be addressed, but, and especially if your wife is alcoholic, pressing or trying to force her to “straighten up”, or in any way demanding she “do something about it” is only going to make matters worse.  And of course, I here accuse you of nothing.  Rather, I simply know how frustrating we alcoholics can be.  Personally, and as crazy as this might sound to many people who do not understand certain alcoholics, drinking to “preserve our sanity”, so to speak, was how I managed to “survive” for a time until I finally found some real help.

As much of my time as you might want is yours, my friend ...

Joe
Answer -
>> I have more questions, if that's OK.

Absolutely!

>> Do all alcoholics have to hit "rock bottom" before they finally realize they need to quit?

Figuratively, yes, but literally, not necessarily.  Some must first “lose all”, yet others do not have to go so far.

In partial metaphor: Alcoholism is like a long, slow train ride that ends at either “wet brain” (Organic Brain Syndrome) or death.  However, there are some clear “road signs” along the way, such as you are now seeing on your wife's own “path”, and the challenge here is to try to help her see them too.

We alcoholics begin to realize we *need* to quit when we begin to know we are dying that “long, slow train-ride” death, and for some of us, merely seeing (or being shown) the signs along the way can be sufficient to inspire a *desire* to quit drinking.  However, be sure to know and to remember that an alcoholic's mere *desire* to quit drinking will *not* get that job done by itself.

>> If so, may I ask, what was "rock bottom" for you?

Realizing death was virtually imminent.  Internally, I had already known for a long time that I was a life-failure and a wreck, and the thought of the coming, horrendous shame (both theirs and mine) of my two young daughters soon attending their drunken father's funeral finally “broke” me completely, and I sought help.

>> Thanks again.

Pardon my tears, and you are welcome.

>> I'm glad I finally found someone to "talk" to about this.

Me too, for with your help (and I am not one to throw flowers), I know there truly is hope for your wife!

Blessings ...
Answer -
Hey, Art.

First, I apologize for not getting back to you this morning, as promised.  My youngest brother had called last night to tell me about some fixtures and cabinets being tossed out from a remodel job he is framing, and he said they would be gone if I did not get them this morning ... so, I went!

Here is my phone number: 574-293-3344 (Elkhart, InDiana).  Working third-shift most of the time, I am usually here and awake in late afternoons and evenings.  In all the time I have been registered on the AllExperts site, you are the first who has ever come past asking a question or two.  I will certainly continue sharing with you from this site as best I can - today, this is what my life is about - but even just one phone conversation could be very helpful to me as I try to help you try to help your wife.  And of course, "no charge" of any kind, ever.

Along with (or even aside from) anything else, reading the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" should prove most helpful to you.  Overall, that book contains the best-ever "common experience" to be heard in relation to permanent recovery from chronic alcoholism.  However, and quite sadly, today's A.A. barely even gives lip service to its actual contents ... and I say that just in case you might be wondering why I have not suggested Al-Anon for you, or that your wife go to A.A.

As you might have already read by now, the physical, THIQ part of alcoholism cannot be eradicated.  Hence this common experience is something your wife will ultimately have to accept:

“We have seen the truth demonstrated again and again: ‘Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.'  Commencing to drink after a period of sobriety, we are in a short time as bad as ever.  If we are planning to stop drinking, there must be no reservation of any kind, nor any lurking notion that someday we will be immune to alcohol” (page 33).

Now, the reason we share that with others is not to force a hard fact upon them, but to try to help make it possible for them to begin to understand why people like us, and no matter how hard we try, simply cannot drink normally and safely.  And in doing that for that reason, we hope our fellow alcoholic can begin to see s/he is *not* the only drinker in the world who has that kind of problem.

Understand?

It is quite likely your wife already knows she is in some way “abnormal” (as far as her drinking is concerned, and maybe even beyond that), and it is also likely she is quite afraid to admit that abnormality even to *herself* (let alone you or anyone else) since she (quite fearfully, I am sure) also suspects or even truly believes she is “all alone” in that whatever-the-f'ing-hell-is-wrong-with-me(?) category.  So, and in whatever way you believe is sensitively and sensibly best, you first need to try to help her understand that THIQ thing – some of us are ‘THIQer' than others, eh?! – or at least how it seems to clearly prove that her out-of-control drinking is not her fault.
(Note: Do not be offended by the “cuteness” of “‘THIQer' (sicker) than others.”  When your wife's mood is light and she might be able to laugh just a bit, do not be afraid to use a little humor to help make something difficult more palatable.)

I will write more again soon, but for now our overall goal is simply to first try to help your wife begin to see and be able to admit the physical element of alcoholism: one drink demands another, and there is nothing that can be done about that ...

“We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking.  We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control.  All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals - usually brief - were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization.  We are convinced to a man [or woman] that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness.  Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.
“We are like [people] who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones.  Neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of our kind like other [people]” (page 30) ...

... and that she is *not* the only one who has that particular problem.

Blessings ...

Joe

PS: Talk to her in the same way you might if you had just found out she is not the only truly-beautiful woman in the world who occasionally finds a hairy wart popping up on her nose!  What a discovery, eh?!

“Great news, my dearest: You are not the only one who has that ... and oh, by the way, there is actually a way for that ‘wart' (over-drinking) to never appear again.  For if you might have a desire to stop drinking, there is a way to make even that quite possible ...”, or something like that.

Do not be afraid to tell your wife you have been learning some things you had never heard before, and that you are still doing some reading and so on in order to be better able to share those things with her, and to help her understand them too ... “but of course, only if you might be interested, dear.”

Be your wife's champion, Art!

Answer
Hey, Art.

Everyone once in a while the AllExperts system does not send a notice that a question is pending, and that is why I am just now responding again ...

Please know I was not ignoring you!

On-line talk is perfectly fine – there is certainly no requirement that we talk on the phone.  My thought there is simply to try to be as helpful as I can.

>> My wife again said she would limit her drinking to only the weekends. She has said this in the past, and it never happens. She seems so genuine when she makes these promises, but they never last.  I don't know what to believe anymore.

First, you can believe she likely really means what she says, but that her “internal difficulties” ultimately make sobriety unbearable ... and so when she next gets started during the week, look for a quiet moment (early on?) to let her know in a non-accusing way that you understand she cannot live with drinking.  As crazy as this might sound, let her see your compassion by even crying with her over that fact – try to join her in bearing the pain she suffers over her feelings of failure (or whatever she might be feeling).  The goal here is not to justify her actions, but to have the same kind of compassion you would have if she was deathly ill of anything else ... and in the meantime, you need to be finding out about the actual solution you will eventually propose to her.

Tell me, if you will and if you have any, about your “religious convictions”, so to speak.  For in the end, this is the bottom line for your wife:

“If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic.  If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
“...
“Lack of power, that was our dilemma.  We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves.  Obviously.  But where and how were we to find this Power?
“Well, that's exactly what this book is about.  Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem.  That means we have written a book which we believe to be spiritual as well as moral.  And it means, of course, that we are going to talk about God” (Alcoholics Anonymous, pages 44-45).

There is no requirement for you to be a “believer” yourself in order to tell your wife about "the solution", but you will at least need to well understand it.

Peace to you ...

Joe