Expert: D. Norkus - 8/14/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hello:
    I am 37 years old and just received my instrument rating.  My total flying hours are about 200.  I also have a BA degree in a totally unrelated field.  My goal is to work as an airline pilot.  I have a questions about getting my commercial pilot licence.  Do airlines perfer a Part 61 or Part 141 training for a commercial licence?  Which one do you think will be cheaper to get?  My instrument licence was done under Part 141.  Thank you.

ANSWER: Andy,

I don't believe it matters which route you go and personally know very few pilots that went to a Part 141 school. Others counter that since it is 'airline structured' from the beginning, it is a better experience for those on the airline path. While that is true, it doesn't mean it is the only way to go. The main difference is with Part 141 your curriculum is laid out for you and is every lesson plan must be approved by the FAA. While that is great, under Part 61 your CFI may have a great curriculum of their own- although FAA 'approved'. Since you must pass the same FAA checkride, does that really matter to you?

The other benefit of going Part 141 is getting your commercial at 190 TT. Since you are past that now, it may or may not be of any benefit to go that route to get your commercial finished prior to 250 TT depending on the requirements that you have already satisfied with your past flying.

Here is an article about 141 vs 61- http://www.geocities.com/cfidarren/r-part141.htm

There are also several messages about the topic on the forums at JetCareers.com-
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/flight-training/1912-141-vs-61-a.html

Another difference you may need to consider is cost. I know in my area Part 141 schools run about $40-50 more per hour for plane & CFI.

Hope this can help with your decision.

Dottie





---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for the quick risponse Ms. Norkus!
I heard that congress might change the entry level requirements at regional airlines because of the Buffalo accident. What are the current requirements and how much higher do you think they will raise the minimum hours for first officers? Should i be concerned?  I should be done with my commercial/multi by late this year or early next year.    Also, when do you see the regional airlines starting to hire again?  Thanks

Andy


Answer
Andy

I am glad to see these question were on your mind! You have been doing your homework I see.

1) What are the current requirements and how much higher do you think they will raise the minimum hours for first officers?

The hours required to apply varies slightly by airline. When I was hired, 1,000TT & 100ME was the standard. Years before that it was even higher with many captains I flew with telling me how they needed 3,000+ hours with Part 135 experience to even get an interview with an airline. Here is a listing of carriers and on each page it tells their application minimums or provides a link to their careers page. Mind you, the "mins" to apply and the airlines "competitive minimums" to get the interview offer may be very different. Some airlines are no longer advertising their hiring minimums since they are not hiring. (A hint they will change soon? Maybe.) Many are furloughing.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional.html

American Eagle - 1,000TT/200ME
Colgan (United/Continental Ex) now publishes 1,000TT w/100ME -
Compass (Delta/NW Airlink) requires 1,500 TT, 1,000 ME & Eligible for ATP
Lynx (Frontier)- 1,000TT/100ME
Piedmont (US Airways)- 1,500TT/500ME
Pinnacle (NW/Delta)- 1,000TT/200ME
SkyWest (United Ex, Delta Connect)- 1,000TT/100ME
Great Lakes (United Ex,Frontier) is the lowest at 750TT 50ME & they also have a training contract.

A few years ago some big name flight academy programs were getting their students interviewed at far beneath those published times due to their "airline oriented training curriculum". Now, since no one is hiring, that door has closed. I also believe such "shortcuts" to an airline job may not possible again. The proposed Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009 would require ALL pilots who apply with a regional airline to have their Airline Transport Pilot/ATP certificate which requires 1,500TT. I am not sure how long this will take to enact but I think it will probably be in place well before you have a chance to interview.

The read the bill here-
"Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009"
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3371:

2) Should i be concerned? I should be done with my commercial/multi by late this year or early next year.    

If you thought you might be hired with a regional airline in 2-3 years, yes. This could be a longer journey than you anticipated. In 6-9 months you won't have the flight time to get hired. Even if you triple your 200TT, you will still be under the current application minimums, and far below those proposed. You need to consider how you will build your experience if you can't get an airline interview until 1,000TT or 1,500TT per the bill in committee. Once you have that in 18 months to 3 years (depending on how fast you accumulate hours) hiring may or may not be brisk. See next question....


3) When do you see the regional airlines starting to hire again?  

When 9/11 happened, I was a new hire (with 1,100TT & 120ME). I was promptly furloughed that October and didn't get recalled until Nov of 2003. Hiring began again after all furloughs came back in early 2004 or about 30 months later. Right now, many airlines are still in the process of furloughing pilots. An airline cannot hire until all their furloughs have been recalled. If this cycle goes like what I experienced (and some think it is worse) figure it may take a good  2-3 years after the last furloughs until the industry is on the mend again and there will be a need to hire.

You also need to consider there is a group of aspiring airline pilots that meets (or will soon) the ATP minimums now but can't get hired due to the current situation. Over the next few years, they will only become more qualified and you will be competing against 3,000TT pilots when the airlines begin hiring again. This is when the term "competitive minimums" will really mean something to you.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/professional_articles/judy_tarver/what_does_%

Down the road you may meet the "mins" to apply but don't have competitive flight times, so how do you get the call to interview? This is when networking and letters of recommendation will help you out. Start NOW. Make as many connections as you can with people where you would like to be. Most regional airlines have message boards for pilots (some are restricted to company only but others are open to everyone including aspiring pilots). Register there and begin networking. You may find a pilot in your area you could meet up with who could be a mentor for you and be a source for a LOR latter on. Check out this webpage at bottom for links to several regional message boards-

http://www.pilotcareer.info

AOPA has a pilot mentoring program and you might find an airline pilot who is also active in GA to do mentor you as an aspiring career pilot while you progress through your certificates & ratings. You should also be keen to network as you build ratings & flight time. Your first single engine time building job may come of it. See the previous link for more on that.


~Dottie