Expert: Maria - 2/18/2010

Question
I HAVE TO QUESTIONS:
1. How do you say "II" in Latin? Fore example we write "IOANNES PAVLVS PP. II" but how is "II" supposed to be said?

2. In ancient latin alphabet "U" was written with the letter "V", but how did they know when "V" was to be pronounced as V and when it was to be pronounced as U?

Answer
Hello,

The Latin ordinal number  "II" as in  "IOANNES PAVLVS PP. II"  is written  “SECVNDVS” (the Second), i.e. "IOANNES PAVLVS PAPA SECVNDVS” in capital letters, but "Ioannes Paulus Papa Secundus" in small letters.


As for the use of the Latin letter V instead of U in ancient Latin alphabet, I have to point out that:

1-in ancient Roman alphabet there were only capital letters.

2-therefore the Romans originally  used  only the capital letter  V  which was pronounced like the letter W in English 'world' or the “OO” in “good”.

3- the small letters were introduced much later  and then the "V" continued  to be  a capital letter, while the  "u" was the small letter for the same sound, i.e. like the English W in "world" or the “OO” in “good”,  since  in Latin there was not  the sound  "V"  of the English "vase" or  "vessel".
For example the Romans wrote "VINVM" (wine) in capital letters, and "uinum" in small letters, but they pronounced both “V” and “u” like the “W” in “word”,”want”, “world” or the “OO” in “good” or in “boot”.


4-only in medieval times the Latin capital  letter "V" was differentiated into "U" , "V"  and "W", producing an alphabet equivalent to that of modern English, for example, with “v”,”u” and “w” in small letters.


Finally with regard to your question about “how did the Romans  know when "V" was to be pronounced as V and when it was to be pronounced as U”, I have to repeat that it is quite sure that the Romans pronounced  either the capital letter “V “ or the small letter “u”  like the “W”  in  English "word","world", or the “OO” in “good”,”boot”.

This thesis is in fact corroborated by the Greek transcription of the Latin terms which began with a "V" or  had the letter "V".  
For example, the Latin name VIMINALIS / Viminalis (i.e. Viminal hill, one of the seven hills of Rome) became OUIMINALIS/Ouiminalis (Οὐμινάλις) in Greek, where the diphthong  'OU' / ‘Ou’ sounded like the W in “word” or the OO in “good”.

Hope this is clear enough.
Best regards,
Maria
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Note that today there are two ways of pronouncing  the  letter V :

1- it is pronounced like the V in 'Vase', according to the school pronunciation of the Latin language which dates back to the Middle  Ages.
2- it is pronounced like  the W  in  'word' or the OO in "good", according to the probable true  pronunciation of Classical Latin.