Expert: Kenton Scott - 2/6/2008

Question
QUESTION: I'm bidding on a baritone.  Since you guys have no s/n lists, is there a way to generally date a horn ?  How about the logo on the bell ?  Engraved versus ID plates ?
Finger ring or no ? OR...Bow guard design on the bottom ?

Thanks.
Bill  Rose

ANSWER: Those would be possibilities, assuming you had some horns as reference points.

Another way is to look for the general development items that were changed at about the same time across brands.  Examples:  leaf spring water keys, and cork top valve caps fell out of use right around the turn of the century.  



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I'm sorry....I thought the leaf spring water keys were a standard.  Can you elaborate ?  The cork top valve caps.. do you mean the screw on caps to the casings or the buttons on top?  Pardon my lack of knowledge.  Thank you once again.

Bill

ANSWER: On water keys, they went from:

http://horn-u-copia.net/instruments/altowaterkey.jpg

to

http://horn-u-copia.net/instruments/keeferkey.jpg

On valve caps they went from:

http://www.horn-u-copia.net/Docs/corked-valve-caps.jpg

to

http://www.horn-u-copia.net/Docs/Conn-Valve-caps.jpg

(hopefully, I made no errors selecting the links)

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: New question for different horn.    I just bought a baritone horn made by A.Lecomte & Co., Paris.    The horn has no water keys and has cork around the valve stem for a guide.
Is there any way to date this horn from that information ?

Thanks in advance,
Bill

Answer
From the information, only some general speculations.  

After working for Gautrot, Arsene Lecomte established his company as brass makers in 1859, and from 1860 he made saxhorns, mostly for export.  The company was merged with Massin & Thibouville in 1889. In 1898, the company merged with Ullmann, but operated only as dealers.

The cork topped valve caps go back as far as this company was in existence.  

The water key was first offered as a option or 'after-market' item by many brands before they became a standard feature.  

So, I wouldn't want to rule out anywhere from the 1860s-1890s, with probably the most likely being the 1880s.