You are here:

Antique Safes/S Withers antique safe.

Advertisement

Expert: - 11/11/2008


Question

Withers Safe
I have an S. Withers 2-door Fire Resistant safe. As all photographs I have seen are of 1-door types I wonder if the 2-door is unusual.  It has two brass lock covers stating Withers Patent Lock  and two 'hand' handles which work perfectly. The nuts on the inside door at the back of the hands do not look antique. There is one brass plaque stating S. Withers, Patentee, West Bromwich. The other plaque is missing. There are two internal drawers which lock. I bought it about 45 years ago.  It has obviously been well used, but is in excellent working order. I painted it to match my decor, but doubtless this paint could be removed relatively easily. There are two external keys and two internal keys (not original). Size: 610mm high, 610mm wide, 430mm deep. Photographs attached.

Could you give me an idea of the value of this please, as I now wish to sell it.

My sincere thanks.

Doreen

Answer
Doreen,

Fortunately you are lucky, most safe manufactures have very little information about them and it can take weeks or months to dig out even small tid-bits.
The attached  email address will give you not only a history of the company but of the safe maker and his family, this is rare to get this much information about a safe maker from the mid 1800's.

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/locks/gazetteer/withers/withers.ht...

Double door safes are not rare but they are the exception for safes this old.

The second email address I have for you is from an antique shop in Allen, Texas, that I believe, currently has an S. Withers engish safe for sale, asking price is $5850.

http://www.antiquingdallaswithpamela.com/items/544886/item544886store.html

I think that this is a bit much but someone will probably cough up the dough, thinking they are getting a great deal.  The fact that the safe is "well worn" and "it is missing a plaque" will significantly lower the value.

As far as rating your safe, the following are some of the standards that I go by, I would need photo's of your safe in order to offer some type of value.  Photo's should include good quality full interior/exterior pictures and detail photos of the key holes, handles, hinges, castors, lock work, bolt work, cabinetry, art work and any special features or damage.  send them to my email:  andy@securitysafeusa.com

Rating Antique Value is based on several things, such as (but not limited to):
1.  Condition:  (excellent, good, fair, poor)
2.  Age
3.  Manufacture
4.  Type:  (Fire, Data, Burglary (bankers or jewelers)
5.  Construction methods:  (sheet steel, cast iron, composite, heavy steel/manganese)
6.  Size / Weight
7.  Art work  (original/refurbished/restored)
8.  History:  (documented with and without photo’s)
9.  Purpose of resale -  as an antique or for use as “Burglar safe or Fire safe“

Condition is based on different levels such as:
Excellent - Like new / out of the box
Good - Used but in like new condition/all parts available and work
Fair - minor damage, paint scratches, combo's and keys are available and/or doors are locked open.  Interior has minor damage.
Poor - Locked missing combo or keys, missing parts (ie locks, wheel packs) major damage, safe has been repainted over existing paint.  Interior damage, drawers missing, locks damaged, missing, etc.

The type of safe can change the value dramatically as Bankers & Jewelers safes are more sought after than cast iron record safes.

Purpose of "use"  If you are going to refurbish the safe and use it as an antique the value will be more than if you were going to use it as a "safe".  The reason being the safe was built 100 years ago, it would not stand up to current fire and burglary standards at all.

If the safe has documented history and/or if you restored it to original condition you could significantly improve the value of the safe.

If you decide to restore it, I have some ideas that will be of help to you, but unless it is a really unique safe and/or you are really in love with it, you should plan on spending more than it is worth.

Remember that the majority of these safes were built prior to cutting torches and/or most of the electrical tools that we have today.  The do not meet current burglary or fire protection standards and as such should not be used for overnight storage of valuables such as:  cash, jewelry, valuable documents, guns or computer media (discs, thumbdrives, microfiche).  

Depending on how large your safe is you could use it as an interesting conversation piece or storage and display of collectible items that you may have.  Don't be afraid to convert the interior cabinetry over to a nice display cabinet of some sort.  Upgrades such as cabinetry increase the value.

Hope this helps out,

Andy

Terry V Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009, 2010 & 2011 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Reserve Chief Warrant Officer (CW3), with 32 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2006 US Army Retired Reserve 2006-present

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

©2012 About.com, a part of The New York Times Company. All rights reserved.