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Antique Safes/Cary and Diebold safes

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Expert: - 9/30/2008


Question

Cary Safe
Terry, Thanks for sharing your knowledge of old safes with us. I have 2 old safes, number one is a Cary Safe, 52 " high X 27 " deep X 34" wide. Number 2 is a Diebold 2 door, 68" high X 30" deep X 37" wide. Both are in good working condition with inner and outer doors and combination locks that work. Both have bad repaints on the exterior ( not me!) and original interiors. My questions:
1) Any idea of values?
2) Are they worth restoring?
3) I only have one inside key for each safe, can I get duplicates? The Cary key is wearing out, I use it daily in my business.
<img src=http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/midwestcoin/cary2.JPG><p><img src=http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/midwestcoin/cary4.JPG><p><img src=http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/midwestcoin/cary3.JPG><p> <img src=http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/midwestcoin/dieb1.JPG><p>
<img src=http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/midwestcoin/dieb2.JPG><p>
<img src=http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/midwestcoin/dieb3.JPG><p>
<img src=http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/midwestcoin/dieb4.JPG><p>


Pics attached. Thanks for your help! Dean

Answer
Dean,

First I'll start with the keys - recommendation, get extras immediately before you lose or break one.  I would take the lock with the damaged Cary key so that they can hand fit new keys.  If you don't have a safe company or locksmith locally that can make the keys, you can send the locks to me.

Second, I'm not sure what you are using them for, business wise, but if you are keeping anything more than everyday documents in them, you should retire them both.  It's not the fact that they both work well, its a matter of the protection they provide.  Remember that they were both made sometime between WWI and WWII.  This was before cutting torches and electric drills.  Neither one offer you any serious burglar protection.  They were also, both made before any serious testing of fire safes was performed.  Remember that in the bast 70-80 years, no telling how many times the doors have been slammed.  Most safes that I've seen this old have major damage to the fire resistive material, especially in the doors.  Major cracking detrimentally affects the heat resistance and in most cases renders it useless.  GET A NEW SAFE and retire these guys.

Values - in their current condition I would rate them both as fair to poor.  This, along with what we discussed in paragraph two makes them worth $100 to $300.  This isn't bad news but not knowing what purpose you want to put a value on the safes considering "resale".  

Restoration - If you want to substantially increase their potential value, this is the only way to go - keep in mind that you shouldn't have the idea in mind that you will improve their security - they are what they are.  Improving the looks and functionality will improve value.
First would be the paint job, restoring it or at least making it more appealing will help.
Second, would be all of the chrome fittings, redoing them will make the safe jump!
Third would be the interior cabinetry.  You have several choices, from original cabinetry to custom, such as a humidor or wine locker or combination.  A unique interior can really jump the value.

Restoration can cost well more than the safes will ever be worth, unless you are keeping them as conversation pieces or display items.  Options range from doing it your self, to having expert painters/cabinetry workers, to possibly having the local high school or community college art / woodworking classes take them on as restoration projects.

Again, the question of "are they worth restoring" depends on what you plan on doing with them.

Hope this helps

Andy
    Questioner's Rating
    Rating(1-10)Knowledgeability = 10Clarity of Response = 10Politeness = 10
    CommentThanks for the great response!


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Terry V Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009, 2010 & 2011 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Reserve Chief Warrant Officer (CW3), with 32 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2006 US Army Retired Reserve 2006-present

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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