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Antique Safes/Hall's Safe and Lock Co.

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Expert: - 9/30/2008


Question

Safe
I have a safe that says, Hall's Safe and Lock Co on the front. It says it was built in Cincinnati and it has the name James Young painted above the door. It also has a painted picture of a lake on the front. It appears the painting and what appears to be gold leaf are original. I found the safe in a abandoned vault during demolition of a building near an old train station in a town that was founded in the 1800's. It was unlocked with the combination written on the inside. It works perfectly, I was interested in knowing the history of the company and it's value. I have attached a photo for you.

Answer
Marc,

Here is the basic info on Hall's Safe and Lock Co.;

Hall's Safe & Lock Co., Cincinnati, OH. Hall's Burglar Proof Safes.  Joseph L. Hall began producing safes in 1846 and founded Hall's Safe & Lock Co. in 1848.  The company sold 50,000 of its safes by 1872, when it was producing 15 to 20 a day.  In 1892, the company merged with two other companies to form the Herring-Hall & Marvin Safe company.  Two of Joseph's sons went with the merger but after several years they broke off and formed the Hall's Safe Company.  There was a law suit brought by HHM as they had the rights to the name Hall.  After several years of legal squabbling, the court ruled that HHM did not have rights to the name Hall, but they did have the rights to the name Hall's Safe & Lock Co.  The sons were allowed to use their name but not in the "possive" term, so they became Halls Safe company. (note the lack of an apostrophe).

Your safe is a nice size which makes it slightly more desirable, but it shows lots of paint damage and wear, but luckily you have a combination and it works, so I would rate your safe somewhere between "poor to fair" condition.  (see below).
James Young is probably one of the original owners of the safe (or at least an owner).  Track him down or his family and you may find more info about your safe.

Rating Antique Value is based on several things, such as (but not limited to):
1.  Condition:  (excellent, good, fair, poor)
2.  Age
3.  Manufacture
4.  Type:  (Fire, Data, Burglary (bankers or jewelers)
5.  Construction methods:  (sheet steel, cast iron, composite, heavy steel/manganese)
6.  Size / Weight
7.  Art work  (original/refurbished/restored)
8.  History:  (documented with and without photos)
9.  Purpose of resale -  as an antique or for use as “Burglar safe or Fire safe“

Condition is based on different levels such as:
Excellent - Like new / out of the box
Good - Used but in like new condition/all parts available and work
Fair - minor damage, paint scratches, combo's and keys are available and/or doors are locked open.  Interior has minor damage.
Poor - Locked missing combo or keys, missing parts (ie locks, wheel packs) major damage, safe has been repainted over existing paint.  Interior damage, drawers missing, locks damaged, missing, etc.

The type of safe can change the value dramatically as Bankers & Jewelers safes are more sought after than cast iron record safes.

Purpose of "use"  If you are going to refurbish the safe and use it as an antique the value will be more than if you were going to use it as a "safe".  The reason being the safe was built 100 years ago, it would not stand up to current fire and burglary standards at all.
Value of your safe for fire and burglar protection would be $0 to $100.

Without seeing quality pictures of the safe it is difficult to answer the question concerning value, however that being said, most safes such as yours in fair condition usually go for $250 to $500.

If the safe has documented history and/or if you restored it to original condition you could significantly improve the value of the safe.

If you really like the safe, and it isn't in the way, it would make a great end table/conversation piece.  If the inside is serviceable and not in too bad shape, you could convert it for use as a Humidor or small wine cabinet for those red wines that like the dark and a constant temperature.

If you decide to restore it, I have some ideas that will be of help to you, but unless it is a really unique safe and/or you are really in love with it, you should plan on spending more than it is worth.

Remember that the majority of these safes were built prior to cutting torches and/or most of the electrical tools that we have today.  The do not meet current burglary or fire protection standards and as such should not be used for overnight storage of valuables such as:  cash, jewelry, valuable documents, guns or computer media (discs, thumbdrives, microfiche).  

Depending on how large your safe is you could use it as an interesting conversation piece or storage and display of collectible items that you may have.  Don't be afraid to convert the interior cabinetry over to a nice display cabinet of some sort.

Feel free to send me better pictures of the safe, interior and exterior, and detail photos of the dial, handle, hinges, castors, locks, art work, cabinetry and any special details, I'll be able to give you a little better idea of what the safe is or could be worth.

Andy
andy@securitysafeusa.com

Terry V Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009, 2010 & 2011 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Reserve Chief Warrant Officer (CW3), with 32 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2006 US Army Retired Reserve 2006-present

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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