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Expert: - 2/6/2009


Question
QUESTION: rehabbing an old building and there is and old hhm safe it was open with what we thought was the combination but we tried opening it and cant get it to open we may not be doing it right it has a middle dial and a handle below it that turns it appears to have 4 numbers

ANSWER: Ronnie,

There are only three reasons a combination lock won't work:
1.  incorrect dialing procedure,
2.  incorrect combination
3.  mechanical problems

HHM used several locks over the life of the company (1892-1950's).

Generally the following procedure was used by most of these locks:

4 times left to the first number,
3 times right to the second number,
2 times left to the third number,
1 time right, slowly to stop.

Note:  If you have a yale HB or OB style lock the last turn will not be right to stop.  You can tell if you have one of these locks by turning the handle and applying pressure to the lock.  Turn the dial and you will feel a point that it seems the handle engages the lock and the dial will not turn.  This is the point that you would stop the dial on the last turn.  For instance:  1 time right stopping at 0.

Note:  Left is counter clockwise, right is clockwise.  Do not count the dial revolutions, count individual numbers as they arrive at the index mark at 12 o'clock.

If the above instructions do not work, you can try changing directions and dialing as above.

Andy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: we have yet to get the safe open. we have the new safe coming next week and were going to ask for an estimate on opening it if we haven't opened it by then. first the safe was open when we started but thinking we had the combination we of course closed and locked it. the dial would turn from about 10 to about 90 when open. the combination was written down like this 30L 98 076t ( or what appears like a t) we cleaned up the tag to see if we could get the model # it was still a little hard to read but i think it was A6007. hopefully this will help we have tried everything else next is having it opened for us.

Answer
Ronnie,

Sorry, the numbers are not any extra help.

Your combo may need to be dialed as follows:

4 times left to 30
3 times right to 98
2 times left to 76
1 time right - stop at zero - try turning the handle.

If this doens't work, try reversing the directions.
Where are you located?

Andy

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Terry V Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009, 2010 & 2011 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Reserve Chief Warrant Officer (CW3), with 32 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2006 US Army Retired Reserve 2006-present

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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