Expert: Terry V Andreasen (Andy) - 10/4/2009

Question
QUESTION: Would like to know if our Hibbard-Rodman-Ely antique safe (size 5, from early 1900s) is considered a cannonball style safe. Was told it was not "exactly" a cannonball. We heard it was worth about $300 as scrap metal, but would much rather find out its value as a functioning antique safe and get on idea on how to find people who would be interested in acquiring this antique safe. Would sandblasting and new exterior paint enhance the value?

ANSWER: Pam,

even though your Hibbard is not a cannonball in the strictest sense, it is considered a "cannonball style".  The Hibbard's were a unique safe because of their design.  

You would need to contact a scrap dealer to find out what the safe would actually be worth in scrap.  It is not a composite safe, but solid manganese steel.  Check with a local dealer and let him know that you have a solid manganese steel safe weighing over 5000 lbs and see what kind of price he gives you.
Check to ensure that it is non-magnetic manganese, otherwise it would be just plain scrap steel.
You may want to check around as foreign countries may pay the highest prices.

In order to identify, evaluate or appraise your safe, I'm going to need photos.  They should include full exterior and interior.  Detail photos should include pictures of the dial, handles, hinges, artwork, locks, bolt work, castors, cabinetry and any special details or damage.  Note:  You may have to remove the back panel on the door to gain access to the lock & bolt work – I will need these pics.  If you have a particular detail that you have a question about, I will need a photo of it.

Please use as high a resolution as possible.  Pictures which are low resolution, out of focus, or from a distance don’t help when we try to evaluate the container.  Note:  with higher resolution, you may only be able to send 2-4 pictures per email, depending on the size of the file.  If photos are larger than 2mb each, you may only be able to send two per email.

Please send all of the requested photos to:  andy@securitysafeusa.com

Our informal evaluation is at no charge, however if you need a formal evaluation or appraisal for insurance, estate sales, or to establish it as an antique, there is an administrative fee for this service.

The estimate of value that I give you is based on its CURRENT condition.  If after you restore it you want another evaluation I would be happy to do it.  But to give you an idea, a victor cannonball, restored, sold for around $25,000 last year.

Andy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: What is a "victor cannonball" safe? And is a traditional cannonball safe the completely round-shaped safe on a pedestal (my father once saw one of these in a rural bank in the early 1930s - perfectly round and black)? Do you know who originated the cannonball style, and what made it popular?

Answer
Pam,

A cannonball safe is a "style" of safe, generally a round ball setting on a pedestal.  There may be a second safe in the pedestal or not.  These safes were made in various sizes, and by various manufactures.  Some of these manufactures included Diebold, Mosler, Victor, Hibbard-Rodman-Ely, Corliss, York, Manganese Steel Safe Co., Cramer, National Safe Co., and the Herman Safe Company.
While some of these companies were eventually absorbed by other companies, many simply went out of business, with a few actually lasting into the late 20th century.

Unfortunately there are no records that would indicate who was the first one with the idea, the fact that it was the first "high security safe" to be made popularized it with banks.  Many of them would have a cannonball safe inside of their vault to ensure that the cash was safe.
I remember seeing a photo of one of the casinos in Las Vegas from the 1950's that had two rows of 15 cannonball safes in their money room.

The basic style of course was round, but inorder to sell their product manufactures come up with various "style" differences to make their product "stand out" from the competition.  Hibbard came up with the "square" body on the pedestal.  While being larger than a traditional cannonball, it also offered more interior space for storage.

Because of the manufacturing equipment required to make types of safes, many of the safe companies were pressed into service in both WWI and WWII to make tanks, and big guns.  Unfortunately, many also didn't survive the wars because of these transformations for the war effort.

Hope this helps to answer your question.

Andy