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Antique Safes/Thinking of buying

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Expert: - 10/6/2009


Question
I was looking at an older safe for a few jewelry items and important papers.  I was looking at a Mosler safe.  It has a label, Inspected relocking device group 1, SERIAL NUMBER 250362. Another label says spec B1, SMNA, Burglary resistive chest.  I saw an earlier response questioning the integrity of the fire resistant insulation.  Should I pursue this or has this safe too, outlived it's usefulness?

Answer
Tom,

It is great that you are asking about the safe before buying it rather than afterwards.

The UL tag about the relocking device, is simply stating the safe had one at some point.

The SMNA burglary resistive "B1" label indicates that it is a burglary resistive chest, however you didn't include the classification group!  There are 12 different SMNA classification levels.

Note:  SMNA quit labeling safes in the early 1960's.  Any safe over 50 years old does not meet current burglary or fire protection standards and SHOULD NOT be used for overnight storage of cash, JEWELRY or valuable documents.

As you did not provide me with a serial number for the safe, I can't give you the age of the safe, but at a minimum, with an SMNA label it has to be at least 47 years or older.

You have also questioned the fire resistance of the safe.  Based on the information provided this safe has ZERO fire resistance.  it is a Burglary resistive safe.  While this safe may have useful purposes, it seems that you are looking for a safe that provides both burglary and fire protection - this would indicate that you need a composite safe.

As you didn't mention what types or quantity of valuables other than jewelry and important documents, I would have to offer the following:

1.  $5000 or less in value, look for an RSC container with at least B rated burglary or equivlant and 1 hour of fire protection.
2.  $5000 to $15,000 in value, C rated burglary protection (1" steel door with 1/2" walls, plus 1 hour fire protection.
3.  $15,000 to $50,000 in value, UL/TL-15 rated safe with 1 or 2 hours, fire protection.
4.  in excess of $50,000 in value, TL-30 rated safe with 2 hours of fire protection.

If your contents are also going to be insured, check with your insurance representative to find out what the minimum level of protection they will allow you to have and still insure your valuables.

Hope this helps.

Andy

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Terry V Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009, 2010 & 2011 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Reserve Chief Warrant Officer (CW3), with 32 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2006 US Army Retired Reserve 2006-present

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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