Expert: Terry V Andreasen (Andy) - 10/23/2009

Question
QUESTION: I have a payroll safe from an old "Liberty" ship which I've used for a number of years.It was in a barn which suffered damage and resulted in the safe getting "weathered on" for quite some time.  Now the door won't rotate to allow the combination to be entered.  The dial does turn, but since I can't "counter-rotate" the door, the combination won't affect the locking mechanism.  Liquid wrench type penetrants haven't worked so far.  Don't want to put too much force on the handles so I don't shear any small gear teeth or shafts.  Any suggestions? Pneumatic vibrator? Heating the door seam with a torch?

ANSWER: George,

Your safe is a Mosler, the problem is not weather, its rust.  These doors have an extremely small tollerence between the door and frame - any rust will seize it.

If the lock is in the unlocked position, then your biggest problem is rotating the door - once it starts it will open.

Vibrating the door and/or heating it are all good ideas providing you don't cause damage.  Another idea would be to weld a section of bar on to the rotating face of the safe to use as a slugging wrench.  A few good taps with a sledge in both directions may free it up.

Make sure you clean, and service the door COMPLETELY before locking it again.

Andy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks so much for your speedy reply with an excellent suggestion. Two more questions though please. Could I remove the 4 large bolts that hold the hinge plate to the front of the safe and gain any "door rocking" motion advantage and, secondly, are the gears/shaft of the handle mechanism used to turn the door fragile (once upon a time I think I remember hearing a rumor of brass gears that could shear off the shaft or lose teeth). I ask because I made a fixture to clamp onto the shaft that has a through bar that is more robust than the supplied 3-piece handle/hub but worry about breaking the next weakest link that most certainly would be inside the safe. I guess I was hoping the penetrant I used would break the rust free and (prior to heat/vibration/welded on bar)the more robust clamp would allow me to apply some more aggressive turning force.

Answer
George,

Removing the four large "bolts" that attach the hinge to the safe, will give you a fulcrum advantage, however as it is part of the bull gear that rotates the door - it may just rotate around the door.  If the hinge comes to a stop it may give you the torque which may break the rust free (assuming the door is unlocked and the bolts are retracted).  Note:  These doors are extremely heavy and if the door starts to rotate and comes free, there will be nothing between it and the floor.  In cases like this, gravity is not your friend - keep your feet well clear, or better yet, have some type of table at the lower edge of the door to catch it.  I'm talking heavy duty that will not slide out of the way or collapse under the weight.

The handle gear is fairly simple and it is made of steel, however the gear teeth around the ring of the door is a machined, cast piece that is probably the "weak link".  Applying to much force to the handle will either shear the handle arbor, break teeth on the gear, or shear the teeth on the bull ring.
This entire arrangement is on the outside of the door, under the hinge plate extension, and the cover plate, in the middle of the door.  Unfortunately, you won't be able to remove this equipment without first removing the dial, which must be done from the back of the safe.

An option would be to lay the safe over on its back, remove the hinge bolts, and use the hinge for leverage to try to break the door free.  You remove the gravity problem as the door will not drop out of the safe, however, you still have the gear problem.  The hinges are part of the bull gear that rotates the door.  It may rotate around the door and not provide you with the leverage you need.

Lying the safe on its back will also provide the penetrant a chance to soak "down" into the door jamb.

Andy