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Antique Safes/Trouble opening a jeweler's safe

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Expert: - 12/23/2009


Question

safe
I have a small jeweler's type safe for which I can successfully get to the point of putting in the combination.  I've turned the combination dial now to the right passed zero until the stops and kind of locks in place.  The taller lever on right should now open the safe if turned clockwise.  Except it doesn't turn at all.  

I've always have had trouble closing the safe (which I've opened dozens of times over the decades).  The horizontal bar on the bottom is locked in place by pushing the vertical lever on the left toward the safe.  Similarly, this lever needs to be pulled away from the safe in order to open it.  It's always be tough pulling this lever open and closing it so that the right hand lever can turn.  In recent years, I've always needed some mechanical assist to move the left lever attached to the horizontal bar.  Right now in the closed position, I can't budge it manually.

Here's my question:  For the right hand vertical lever to turn clockwise releasing the locking bars, does the left hand lever needs to be pulled out first?  

I simply have forgotten which lever should be moved first.  Will I hurt the mechanism if I try to force that left hand lever out away  from the safe?

Thanks,

Harold

P.S. You may make this question public, but do not publish my email address.

Answer
Harold,

First, this site doesn't publish email addresses from questioners, it sort of whites them out.

Secondly, YES, forcing may damage components.  If you have to force or hit something hard enough to cause damage, you are forcing or hitting tooooo hard!  Broken pieces on your safe are not easily obtained and may need to be refabricated at a machine shop.

Your safe isn't a stand-alone safe, it is a jewelers chest that was originally built inside of another safe, usually a cast iron style record or fire safe.  Let's go over the design and basic operation to help deduce the problem.

These chests were built with almost perfectly square doors.  This was to make it difficult for burglars to use nitroglycerine type explosives to try to open the safe.  Perfectly square doors will fit into their openings very tightly.  The door also has steped ridges that interlock with the door jamb to increase the fit.
Unfortunately square doors do not close conviently!  If you look at a regular safe door, or a closet door at your house, you will notice that the edges are slightly tapered to allow the doors to swing shut, unfortunately, this also leaves a fairly large gap.  
In order to close your square door, the door doesn't close directly into the jamb, it actually stops short about 1/2" to 1" away and perpendicular to the face of the safe.  This is where the first handle comes into play.  The handle that is attached to the bar running across the face of the safe is refered to as a pressure bar system.  Lifting this handle engages the pressure bar and "PRESSES" the door into its opening.  It is a nice tight fit.  The door is closed, but not locked.
The second handle operates the bolt work.  There are probably two horizontal bars inside of the safe.  Turning this handle will cause them to extend and retract.  When the door is closed turning the handle to the left will extend the two bars securing the door into the jamb.  Turning the handle to the right or clockwise, will retract the locking bars, the pressure bar can then be released pulling the door out of the jamb so that it can be opened.

This brings us to the lock.  The lock "bolt" blocks the movement of the two horizontal bars inside of the door.  When the combination has been dialed correctly, the dial will engage a lever which pulls the lock bolt out of the way.  You can then turn the handle to the right, retracting the two horizontal locking bars, then rotate the pressure bar handle to release the door.

Now that we have gone over the basic operation, and discussed how each item interacts with each other, we can start to diagnose the problem.

1.  Not being able to turn the handle to retract the horizontal locking bars can be caused by a number of reasons.
    a. The lock bolt is not fully retracted.
    b. The pressure bar is not fully seated, causing pressure on the locking bars.
    c. Something may be caught in between the door and jamb, causing extra pressure (it doesn't take much)!
    d. As you have had problems over a period of time, it may be a maintenance issue like rust.
2.  Not being able to turn the pressure bar handle can be caused by:
    a. something jammed in the pressure bar system.
    b. mis-alignment of the pressure bar system.
3.  The lock bolt may not be fully retracted.  Ensure that it is.  If the pressure bar system is slightly unengaged it may not let the lock bolt retract fully.  If the horizontal locking bars are not fully extended, they may be pressing against or binding the locking bolt.  Ensure that they are fully extended.  Again, retract the lock bolt.  notice where the dial stops when you have turned it all the way.  Is this where it normally stops, or is it slightly short of this position.

If you go over each one of these areas you may be able to determine which item or combination of items is causing your problems.  As you mentioned you have had always had problems, it sounds to me like it is a maintenance problem.  If you can't figure it out, you will probably need a safe technician.  If you do get it open, DO NOT CLOSE IT, until you have had the door, bolt work and pressure bar system properly cleaned, lubricated and serviced.

I'm in northern California, if your safe is in my area, I would be happy to check it out.  If not, let me know where it is and I'll recommend someone.

Andy

Terry V Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009, 2010 & 2011 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Reserve Chief Warrant Officer (CW3), with 32 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2006 US Army Retired Reserve 2006-present

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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