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Antique Safes/Unknown combination

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Expert: - 12/19/2009


Question

Certified Edwards & Sq
I'm amazed at your knowlwedge of these safes. I have just been given a safe that has the following information on the front. At the top of the safe it says a name JT CROSS. Under that it says "Certified Edwards & Squires" Under that it says Norfolk, VA Safes
It has yale written on the knob.
And on the latch to open the safe it has the letter Y with the number 58816.

No clue on the combination. Can you help.
Tim
.
Also if that doesn't work and I had to drill into the safe. Where and what area is the best place to break into a safe. Thank you so much for your time. From the pictures you wouldn't value this safe more than $500.00 would you. I doesn't appear to be repainte.d

Answer
Tim,

Your safe appears to be a J. Baum Safe (1916-mid 1920's).  Though I will need more pics including interior views to make sure.

The Edward & Squires, Norfolk, VA, were probably distributors as they were not manufactures.  I haven't found any references to this company at all.  The name JT Cross was probably the original owner of the safe.  You may be able to do a little research on him to get more information about the safe.

Note 1:  We do not give out opening instructions and/or drilling information.  It is not our purpose to teach people to break into safes, and we have no way of verifying whether or not you are the rightful owner of the safe, or a certified locksmith or safe technician.
Note 2:  While manufactures never publish lists of original combinations, some old timers would collect combo's looking for some sort of sequence that manufactures used in picking combinations - in most cases the combinations were random and their was no sequence based on serial numbers or anything else.  I do have a limited number of these trial combinations, but there is no guarantee that any will work.
Here are the "few" combos that I have for the J. Baum safes with Yale locks.
30-20-50,  35-25-40,  40-30-40,  10-20-30,  65-20-30, 40-90-65,  90-30-85

The dialing sequence is:
4 times right to the first number, (30)
3 times left to the second number, (20)
2 times right to the third number, (50)
1 time left stopping at 0, turn handle,  (alternative, 1 time left until the dial stops, between 0-10).

If neither sequence works, then you will need to get a safe technician from a local safe company to open the safe for you, cost: $350-$500, time about 2-3 hours.

Value:
Locked up the value is virtually $0 as any fees will wipe out the profit of selling it.
Fire:     $0     This safe does not meet any current standard and should not be used for overnight storage of valuable documents.
Burglary: $0     This safe was not designed as a burglary safe, it does not meet any standard and should not be used for the overnight storage of cash, jewelry or valuables.
Retail:   $0     With the safe locked up and no combo, it has no retail value.
Antique:  $0     This safe is not over 100 years old and is not an antique.
Collectible:  $350-$500     Based on the single photo you have included, but with the safe locked up, it has little significant value.

Evaluating the safe - once you get it open:
In order to identify, evaluate or appraise your safe, I’m going to need photos.  They should include full exterior and interior.  Detail photos should include pictures of the dial, handles, hinges, artwork, locks, bolt work, castors, cabinetry and any special details or damage.  
Note:  You may have to remove the back panel on the door to gain access to the lock and bolt work - I will need these pictures.  If you have a particular detail that you have a question about, I will need a photo of it also.

Please use as high a resolution as possible.  Pictures which are “thumbnails” or low resolution, out of focus, or from a distance, don’t help when we try to evaluate the container.
Note:  with higher resolution, you may only be able to send 2-4 pictures per email, depending on the size of the file.  Our server only will allow a max of 6 mb per email.

Please send all of the requested photos to;   Andy@securitysafeusa.com

Our informal valuation is at no charge, however if you need a formal evaluation or appraisal for insurance, estate sales, or to establish it as an antique, there is an administrative fee for this service.

Hope this helps,

Andy
    Questioner's Rating
    Rating(1-10)Knowledgeability = 10Clarity of Response = 10Politeness = 10
    CommentThanks you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I can tell your a helpful person in life as well(not just the internet only), as for me to respond to that email, would have taken at least an hour. Thanks again, I will send you some more pictures. Have a merry Christmas. Tim


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Terry V Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009, 2010 & 2011 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Reserve Chief Warrant Officer (CW3), with 32 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2006 US Army Retired Reserve 2006-present

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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