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Antique Safes/Used J. Baum Safe

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Expert: - 4/2/2009


Question

CIMG1245
I have an old J.Baum Safe and want to sell it. Can you give me a rought idea what it may be worth?


Answer
Bill,

We never rate safes with out seeing the safe.  In order to rate or evaluate your safe I am going to need pictures of the safe.  Evaluation photos should consist of full exterior / interior views, and detail photos of the dial, handles, hinges & acorns, wheels or castors, locks and bolt work, cabinetry, art work and any special details or damage.  Photos should be high resolution digital pics, to allow me to zoom in, to study in detail the safe you are requesting evaluation of.  
Note:  The evaluation, based on the following criteria, is our evaluation, not yours.  Everyone thinks that their little rust bucket is a star.  We try to be as unbiased as possible when evaluating and offering possible restoration options to you.

Send the photos of the safe to andy@securitysafeusa.com

Rating Antique Value is based on several things, such as (but not limited to):
1.  Condition:  (excellent, good, fair, poor)
2.  Age:  (over 100 years, 50-100 years, less than 50 years)
3.  Manufacture:
4.  Type:  (Fire, Data, Burglary (bankers or jewelers)
5.  Construction methods:  (sheet steel, cast iron, composite, heavy steel/manganese)
6.  Size / Weight
7.  Art work  (original/refurbished/restored)
8.  History:  (documented with and without photo’s)
9.  Purpose of resale -  as an antique or for use as “Burglar safe or Fire safe“

Condition is based on different levels such as:
Excellent - Like new / out of the box
Good - Used but in like new condition/all parts available and work
Fair - minor damage, paint scratches, combo's and keys are available and/or doors are locked open.  Interior has minor damage.
Poor - Locked missing combo or keys, missing parts (ie locks, wheel packs) major damage, safe has been repainted over existing paint.  Interior damage, drawers missing, locks damaged, missing, etc.

Manufacture – it is essential to determine the actual manufacture of the safe.  Many safe companies would purchase from other manufactures and sell as a distributor.  However the safes were repainted to show the distributors name, rather than the manufacture, mainly for advertising reasons.

The type of safe and construction methods can change the value dramatically as Bankers & Jewelers safes are more sought after than cast iron record safes.

Purpose of "use":  If you are going to refurbish the safe and use it as an antique the value will be more than if you were going to use it as a "safe".  The reason being the safe was built 100 years ago, it would not stand up to current fire and burglary standards at all.
Note:  Safes built more than 50 years ago, should not be used for overnight storage of valuables, such as jewelry, cash, weapons and important documents.  These safes do not meet current protection standards for fire or burglary.  Safes older than 50 years should be either retired or used as a display item.

If the safe has documented history and/or if you restored it to original condition you could significantly improve the value of the safe.  Documented history would include original shipping documents, newspaper stories about the safe, dated photos of the safe actually being used, etc.  Usually family history only means something to the owners of the safe.  Historical documentation would be like “the safe was owned by President Lincoln”, or “Jessie James tried to rob the safe . . . .”!  Stories that are not substantiated by documentation, are just that stories, and do not significantly affect the value.

If you decide to restore it, I have some ideas that will be of help to you, but unless it is a really unique safe and/or you are really in love with it, you should plan on spending more than it is worth.

Remember that the majority of these safes were built prior to cutting torches and/or most of the electrical tools that we have today.  They do not meet current burglary or fire protection standards and as such should not be used for overnight storage of valuables such as:  cash, jewelry, valuable documents, guns or computer media (discs, thumb drives, microfiche).  

Depending on how large your safe is, you could use it as an interesting conversation piece or storage and display of collectible items that you may have.  Don't be afraid to convert the interior cabinetry over to a nice display cabinet of some sort.

In addition to the pictures, please honestly, address some of the issues listed above, so that I have a better idea of your ultimate “goals” for your safe.

Don’t forget to send me your pics!

Andy

Terry V Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009, 2010 & 2011 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Reserve Chief Warrant Officer (CW3), with 32 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2006 US Army Retired Reserve 2006-present

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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