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Antique Safes/What is the manufacturer of this old safe ?

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Front
Front  
Closer look
Closer look  
QUESTION: Hi

I Bought an old safe and just finish to restore it,but couldn't find any manufacturer. Look like all I got it's the model name "The Baffle" and a serial number "5TT 9 4" found under lots of different paint .Thanks for your time hope you can help me.

ANSWER: Hi Salvi,

Thank your for your question and the pictures.  You have certainly made an excellent job of refurbishing it.  I have been a collector of safe name-plates for some years and can't remember coming across the Baffle model before, so it must be quite rare.

The lion on top of a crown was the trade mark of Samuel Withers.  The Withers were a family of safe makers, in fact 4 members of the Withers family all had their own safe making businesses, but Samuel Withers and Thomas Withers were the most successful.   However, there were lots of imitators so I can't guarantee that this is a genuine Sam withers - the lion usually looks to the left - but this is my best guess.

The safe was made circa 1880-90 and this type of construction is referred to as 'four cornered' as a single sheet of mild steel was bent 4 times to construct the four sides of a box with the seam usually at the base.

Safes of this age are no longer suitable for securing cash or valuables but they do make interesting curios.  Please come back to me if you have any further questions.

Regards,

Mike Palmer FSyI
Mike Palmer Consultancy

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Serial number
Serial number  
inside
inside  
QUESTION: Thanks a lot for your answer, I hope it's not a copy but if it was must be very old also ... I join 2 more picture of it if it can help to spot copy of it ... look like inside it miss one shelf and also the color inside was pretty damage by other paint job , so I change the old red/orange color by a white one.and give the door same color as outside.
Maybe something quite importante this is a safe I found in Chile near an harbor where people from england use to trade and sell lots of good long time ago ...
Again thanks for your time and sorry for my basic english spoke !

Jérôme Salvi

ANSWER: Hi Jerome,  

Your English is fine, certainly much better than my Spanish.  I was looking through my collection of safe plates today and found that I had a The Baffle nameplate but much smaller than yours and without the lion and crown trade mark.  I looked at some other Samuel Withers plates and I am 90% sure you safe is a Samuel Withers.

It must be very rare in Chili, in fact I suspect there can be very few in the whole of South America.  What are you going to do with it?

Regards,

Mike Palmer FSyI
Mike Palmer Consultancy

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before
before  

Inside
Inside  
QUESTION: I'm please to ear that ,I was looking on the internet also searching for the word "antique safe" and "the baffle" and nothing came out !!
I will keep this safe, and give it to my new born son one day that was the idea I had when I bought it ! I'm also a beginner restoring things and i'm happy how it came out at end :) I was lucky enought to saw the old original paint and gold line under all the new paint added true all this years.
By curiosity how much this safe can be estimated in this state if it was a real Samuel Withers ?
I aso add 2 picture of how it look when I bought it 2 weeks ago :)

Regards

Jérôme Salvi

Answer
Hi Jerome,

I'm glad to hear you will keep it - you have made a good job.

I have no idea what it is worth in Chili.  They are quite common in the UK and before being refurbished they usually can be bought on eBay for around 󱵰 but in Chili safes of this type and age must be very rare and when they are beautifully refurbished they must be worth considerably more.

Best wishes,

Mike Palmer FSyI
Mike Palmer Consultancy

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Mike Palmer

Expertise

I earn my living identifying safes and suggesting cash limits for risk advisors and insurance surveyors in the UK. I'm am pleased to comment on safes manufactured in the UK or Mainland Europe but I am unable to accept questions regarding safes made in the USA or elsewhere.

Experience

I have been in the UK safe industry for 40 years and have one of the largest archive databases of old safe literature and serial numbers in the country. I started with Chubb in 1960 and became Assistant Manager of their Bank Security Division before moving on to become the Insurance Liaison Manager with the John Tann Group. I became Sales & Marketing Director for Guardian Safes Limited before semi-retiring. I am a Fellow of the Security Institute and ex-Chairman of Eurosafe UK, a trade body representing the interests of UK safe makers and distributors. I now work as a part time consultant.

Organizations
I am an advisor to the Safe Committee of the Association of Insurance Surveyors, a Fellow of the Security Institute and founding Chairman of Eurosafe UK.

Publications
I have had literally scores of articles published in various security trade publications. So far this year I have had 24 features published in various journals including Keyways, Professional Security, Pawnbroker and Safe India. I have published one book, Peckham Boy, the life and times of the world's greatest safe cracker.

Education/Credentials
No relevant educational credentials.

Awards and Honors
In 1997 I was awarded the annual shield by the Association of Insurance Surveyors for "..outstanding services to crime prevention"

Past/Present Clients
I have represented or been an agent for the John Tann Group (Stratford, Ratner, Dreadnought and Tann safes); Churchill Safes, Chubb Safe Co Ltd, SLS Safes, SMP Safes, Dudley Safes and several others

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