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Andy,
  I read all your posts on allexperts, and found one that I wish you could elaborate on some more.  In one post you stated.....
  
  "Also, Victor ONLY used the "In Hoc Signo Vincimus - 1885" ("In this sign we conquer"), with the Phoenix rising from the fire - (trademark) logo from 1885 until about 1904.   

Victor Safe & Lock Company participated in the 1904 Louisiana Purchase Exposition in St. Louis (Dept. D., Group 41, #0055) winning a "Grand Prize" for their exhibit.   For the next 10 years most of their safes had a decal proclaiming this prize."

I have a victor safe with both logos on it.   Am I safe in assuming that my safe is from 1904? or am I misinterpreting your post?   

Thanks for your time.
Phil

Answer
Phil,

I don't recall having seen any safes with both decals, so yours would probably have been from about the time that they were changing over.

Your safe couldn't have been built prior to the exposition, and still have THE "grand prize" decal, so it would have been built after that date.   The exposition was held from April 30th 1904 until December 1, 1904 - so any safe having the grand prize decal would have been built in 1905 or later.

There is no record of Victor Safe & Lock Company renewing the trademark logo in 1905, and unfortunately there are no records to show the actual date they stopped using it.

Assuming that safes did not start using the grand prize decal until 1905, and possibly that was the last year for use of the trademark, the probability of any safe being made that year and having both decals is possible.
It is also very probable that the use of both decals did not happen for the full year, but it would be a good guess that any safe having both decals was made during 1905.

I don't think you misinterpreted, as much as I never bothered to elaborate.   Bottom line though, as there are no factory records to give us a clear indication, we have to use known information to establish probably dates, to help establish years of manufacturing.

Hope this helps,   If you find any information that contradicts any info that I have, I would be MORE than happy to see it, and correct the information that I am currently using.  

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Terry V. Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 44 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of an Ely Norris Cannonball Safe from the early 1900's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

44 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Owner and Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Author of "The Coffee Table Guide to Antique Safes". Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association Safe & Vault Technicians Association

Publications
The Coffee Table Guide to Antique Safes AllExperts.com

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009 - 2015 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Chief Warrant Officer (CW4), with 39 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2013 US Army Retired

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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