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Antique Safes/Old Sargent and Greenleaf vault lock

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Vault
Vault  
S&G lock
S&G lock  
QUESTION: I have a vault front made by Herring Hall Marvin Safe Co that has a Sargent and Greenleaf 4 wheel combination lock that is missing some parts.  Underneath the name on the inside of the door it has the date of 1933 so I'm guessing the lock is the same vintage. I am guessing a C62 or C64 but the pictures I could find looked different the what I have.  If anything the locking mechanism seems closer to a Diebold design then S&G. Any help would be appreciated so I can begin attempting to track down parts.  Thanks.

ANSWER: Hi Jason,

Your lock is actually a 6810 series lock, which replaced the C62 series (simply a later version).   While Diebold did have a very similar lock, it was never used by HHM.

Sorry, I have to address "vintage" as it is one of my pet peeves about a "misused/abused" word.   Vintage applies to the year of a grape harvest or wine bottling, and NOT old safes or vaults.   The other word I also hate is "patina" as most people using this word have no idea what patina actually is, and are trying to be "antique snobs".    Again, sorry about the pet peeves.

As far as looking for parts for your lock, I really doubt that you are going to find individual parts or pieces, as safe companies do not salvage parts only, and there are no aftermarket companies manufacturing them.   In general, you are going to have to find someone with a full lock to sell you, and then use donor parts from both the lock you have and the one you obtain, to make a functioning lock.    Fortunately you have the dial which will save you a bunch of money.   Cost for a C62 or 6810 series lock in a bronze casing, can easily run around $500, so be prepared to open the piggy bank up!

Unfortunately, the photo of the door is NOT of sufficient resolution for me to look at the handle cam area to see if the rotary bolt is going to be the correct lock for this application.  Please send me a better photo of the door, and specifically the lock / handle cam area.

Note:   A rotary bolt & lever assembly from a C66 or three wheel lock, will not work on a four wheel lock body.

Your other option would be to have a machine shop manufacturer the pieces that you are missing (unless you have these capabilities or skills).   Costs generally run about $100 to $150 per hour plus any material, so finding a replacement lock may be cheaper.

Send an email directly to me stating that you are looking for a C62 or 6810 lock, and I'll look through my parts bins to see what I have.   You can also check with safe companies that are in your area to see if anyone has something.

You can send the request to me at:    andy@securitysafeusa.com     

I will be out of the office most of Monday, but the email will remind me to look for the lock to see what I have.

I'm really glad to see that you are interested in restoring your old vault door.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

Lock
Lock  

Lock
Lock  
QUESTION: Thanks for the quick reply and the education on "vintage".  I will be sure to share it with others.  Here are two up close pictures of the handle cam area.  Hope they help.

Answer
Hi Jason,

As I thought, the C62 series rotary bolt lock is NOT what you are looking for, you would need either the C-64 lock with a sliding bolt, or the 6805 lock with a sliding bolt.

Another option would be a current version of this lock, the SGL 6530-003, gr2 Vault Lock, square bolt, with reversible lever assembly, direct drive.    Cost on the new lock is about $500, plus a dial & dial ring if yours doesn't mate up.

As I mentioned before, send an email request directly to my email, and I'll look to see what locks I might have.

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Terry V. Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 44 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of an Ely Norris Cannonball Safe from the early 1900's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

44 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Owner and Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Author of "The Coffee Table Guide to Antique Safes". Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association Safe & Vault Technicians Association

Publications
The Coffee Table Guide to Antique Safes AllExperts.com

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009 - 2015 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Chief Warrant Officer (CW4), with 39 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2013 US Army Retired

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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