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Antique Safes/Diebold Floor Safe May 23 1871 with Jewelers Door

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Question
Jewelers Door
Jewelers Door  

Both Locks
Both Locks  
Hi I have a Diebold floor safe with an outer door that has the patent May 23 1871 3-wheel pack combination lock and also has an inner door with nearly an identical lock as the outer door but with a 4-wheel pack. The inner door is quite neat where by it has a somewhat intricate mechanism which when the fence drops in the gate and the bolt is slid back, the t-handle is turned and then connects to many different linkages that retract 6 approx 3/4" diameter bolts from all sides of the door.

Would like to know the following:
1)the year this was made and if not, at least know the approx year.
2)what model of lock is this if it's not called an Eagle no.161
3)do you have any pictures or links to this door and lock?

I just bought replacement parts from a locksmith on ebay. He sold me the fence and the bolt for 25.00 + 6.00 shipping! So now I was hoping to see a picture, diagram, etc that would let me see how the bolt was formed since I've started fitting the parts in the lock. Can figure it out myself but would save time if I could see some pictures or diagrams.

I have A LOT of pictures if you would like to see more.

Thanks
Kevin

Answer
Hi Kevin,

Great find, glad to see that you are doing the restoration work.

1.   Unfortunately even Diebold no longer has the manufacturing dates.    Someone decided that they didn't need the old info and shredded all of it!!!    What I would have to do is to see the entire safe to try to narrow down an age.    The Patent dates ONLY give us a "could not have been made prior to" date, however the patent would still be shown as long as the lock it applied to was being used, which could be up to 20 plus, years later.

2.   While Diebold did make many of their own locks, they also had some private companies making locks for them.   Eagle was one such company.    The lock in question is more than likely an Eagle model 161 lock.

3.   I'm not sure what your question is???   If you are looking for websites with "links" to items like your door, then the answer is no, there are none.    As far as do I have photos?   I might but I would have to go through about a thousand pics to see what I might have.    You need to be more specific with what you are looking for, so I can narrow down a search for THAT item shown in a photo.

Your options in most cases, looking for old parts would be to find someone with that lock and/or parts available for sale - or to have the parts machined or made.    Generally most companies are NOT going to part out a good lock, meaning that you are buying the entire lock.    If you have found someone with the parts for under $50, I would jump on it.

As far as photos or diagrams of the locks - again there are no schematics available to use for fabrication.   Manufacturers never released that info and most locksmiths and safe techs aren't going to take the time to do the measurements.

Again, if you have a very specific item that you are looking for, I'll see if I have a photo available.   If you need specific measurements, I can draw the item up with machinist type drawings, however the time to draw the item up would come with a price.


Back to item 1 - age of the safe.    I'll need to see photos of it to narrow down a time frame for you.

In order to answer questions, identify, evaluate or appraise the “current condition” of your safe, I'm going to need photos.  They should include full exterior and interior.  Detail photos (close-ups) should include pictures of the dial, handles, hinges, artwork, locks, bolt work, castors, cabinetry and any special details or damage.  Note:  You may have to remove the back panel on the door to gain access to the lock & bolt work – I will need these pics.

If you have a particular detail that you have a question about, I will need a photo of it along with your question.

I will also need to see any documentation that you have in regards to your safe.  If your safe has a unique historical perspective, you should be able to document this with letters, newspaper articles or photos, if not it is simply a story and will have no bearing on the value of your safe.

Please use as high a resolution as possible so that I can examine details of your safe.  Pictures which are low resolution, out of focus, or from a distance don’t help when we try to evaluate the container.  Note:  with higher resolution, you may only be able to send 2-4 pictures per email, depending on the size of the file, I have a 12mb limit per email.  If photos are larger than 2mb each, you may only be able to send 2 or 3 photos per email, requiring several emails.

Please use a “jpeg” format, not a bitmap (bmp) image.   Also, I don’t like “website” photo dumps.   While it may be an easy place for you to store them, retrieving photos which allow me to zoom in to look at details, takes a lot of extra time.   Please send the requested photos directly to me.

Please send all of the requested photos to:  andy@securitysafeusa.com

Note:  As I am in the field several days each week, covering a huge service area, I may not get back to your photos immediately, but I will respond as soon as I get an opportunity.  Due to field work, emails may tend to get backed up which means I may not answer them immediately.

Our informal evaluation is at no charge, however if you feel you need a formal evaluation or appraisal for insurance, estate sales, donations for tax write offs, or to establish it as an antique, there is an administrative fee for this service.

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Terry V. Andreasen (Andy)

Expertise

Safe and Vault related Questions; Antique Safe Repair and Restoration; With over 40 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer. Current Project: Restoration of two Tilton & McFarland Safes from the 1860's. Will answer Safe & Vault related questions concerning age, value, restoration, moving, opening & repairing, parts, operation and history. Note: It is not my intention to teach you to open safes or to provide information which may aid in the unlawful opening of a safe. I will not give out drill points or information which I deem inappropriate.

Experience

40 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute. Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing. Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf

Organizations
Safecrackers International and the National Antique Safe Association

Education/Credentials
Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975 Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985 Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985 Factory trained by AMSEC, MAJOR, STAR, Johnson-Pacific, Kaba-MAS, Allied-Gary, ISM, Lord, Brown Safe, EXL, Mosler, Diebold.

Awards and Honors
2009 - 2013 Listed in AllExperts top 50 Experts. All Experts Categories - Safes & Security Containers, Locksmithing, Antique Safes. Retired US Army Chief Warrant Officer (CW4), with 39 years of total service. With numerous awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. US Navy - 1971-1981 US Army Reserve 1984-2013 US Army Retired

Past/Present Clients
US Secret Service, FBI, BATF, Local Law enforcment agencies, Diebold, Hamilton Pacific, Red Hawk Int., Chubb International, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, Mechanics Bank, El Dorado Savings Bank, many Credit unions and smaller banks. McDonalds, Togos, BurgerKing, TacoBell, Carls Jr. FoodMaxx, SaveMart, Lucky's, Albertson's, Raley's, Safeway, NobHill, Bell Markets, PW Markets. Great America, Century Theatres, Cinemark Theatres, UA Cinemas, and many homeowners and small businesses. Provide warranty service for lock and safe manufactures. Service area is Northern California - Fresno to Oregon, including western Nevada

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