Expert: Jayendra Upadhye - 9/27/2008

Question
QUESTION: hi,im not very educated about physics,but am learning of my own accord,and one thing keeps bugging me,when a star finally reaches critical mass and becomes a black hole,is it possible that the particles at the center stop moving due to the intense pressure,and instead of becoming a hole,it actually becomes something super dense, and changes to a new property of matter (bose-einstien condensate?) so instead of becoming a hole as such,it actually becomes a single atom(super atom i think its called?) which pulls in surrounding atoms to join it,rather than the matter disappearing through the event horizon,never to be seen again,may be it just becomes one with the other atoms as the condensate?

ANSWER: Hi,
You have to apply cold logic when pet theories such as yours, (and mine ..i have aplenty) come up.
It is merciless and simple.
It goes like this.
1 - I admittedly dont know much. (you already said so).
2 - And i reached this conclusion quite fast and easily.
3 - Others by inference know more.
4 - They must have passed "this way".
5 - Then they must have checked it out and rejected it.
6- For some well checked out reason.
7 - (And this your and mine province).."But! I am sure my theory is correct!!" ..this where we enter the wonder land where Alice once went!

Many self taught (I am one too) guys, are unconsciously "arrogant".
Wait, I am not accusing you of anything here, It is just that all that "self-this, self-that", makes one take oneself too seriously, and by inference others "less seriously" so.

Once we coolly compartmentalise the worlds of fact and fiction, life becomes easy, and flash gordon & Dale and Zarkov can co-exist with the space shuttle reality.

What you say lies in the realm of something we can never test.
For who will ever "see" inside an event horizon?

It is like if i were to say now.."No sam! Heaven and all the gods Odin downwards reside there!" ..there would be no way for anyone on earth to disprove that, as far as i am concerned!

That is why in science one goes by collective consensus, and not by what one "imaginesor feels".  Ofcourse, each of us has his own "wonderland", and like the dream one scientist dreamt about the structure of benzene, that wonderland has its way of catching up with reality.


Hope i could "perspectivise" things for you.

regards
Jayen

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: ok,well,i really liked your answer,it wasnt what i was expecting certainly,and it was alot more human than a scientific rebutal,so thankyou for that.
without false modesty,and a touch of humility,i understand the arrogance statement,both my parents are highly trained academics,i really dont take myself too seriously bceause of watching them ruin their lives trying to,but I know when I want to ask a question that people would take as arrogant or a question for the sake of questions,and thats why I turned to the inernet,for a litle anonymity.
so. I dont really think my theory is correct,as per say I dont actually have a theory,but was just wondering whether it is possible that the "inside" of a black hole could be a bose-einstien condensate,youve partially answered my question with "What you say lies in the realm of something we can never test" (by saying this I take it that for the most part,by todays scientific standards,my question is unanswerable)
but i do have a followup question,well its the same question just restated (not to be rude sorry,but i wasnt clear the first time around) are there any reasons or physical laws which would contradict the possibility of the centre of a black hole being a bose einstein condensate?

thank you Jayen
Sam

Answer
Ok,
getting down to a bit of business,
[refer:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose-Einstein_condensate]
the link above actually specifies that the condensate exists only at near absolute zero.

Perforce, we can make a few natural deductions regarding matter, that has just crossed over the event horizon.
1 - That "history" is retained.
Meaning all the terrific rise in temperature due to gravitational tides pulverising the matter, (to the extent that it emitsx rays), is retained well into the horizon,as there is no known process by which matter can "loose heat" in an environment where even radiation finds it hard to escape!
2 - Consequent to the absence of any known process of heat loss, the rapidly accreting event horizon is like a gas being heated adiabatically.

In such an environment (hot beyond imagination), how can a condensate exist?
And if it exists, how will it endure?
Thermodynamics dictates that the temperature inside the horizon will be tending to infinity!
(heat ingress but noegress in a finite volume enclosed by the horizon, which isactually a spherical volume bounded by the swartzchild's radius).

I believe i have persuaded you reasonably well to stove away that concept into "wonderland", to be marvelled at once in a while.

Too bad! I do the same about my own theories about dark matter.

But Fear not, occasionally, fiction catches up with reality, as with the appearance of deimos and phobos, first in fiction and then as reality! The fabled benzene ring structure also surfaced in like fashion.

Who knows, out of the repository of dead ideas in wonderland, some day (may be it could be you), some one could conjure the jedii back to life!

And Zharkov could yet use those A-gravs he built on his lab table, using only slide rules for computers!

regards
Jayen