Expert: Vincent M. Wales - 10/23/2010

Question
Hi, I've already asked this question to Austin Cline but I would really like to read a response from you too. I'm not sure if I can ask more than one expert, it's fine if I can't but if I can, here it is:

Hi, I found this area of allexperts a few days ago and have been reading a lot of the posts. I decided to ask a question because I can't find anything online and I'm struggling with some things.

I think I might be an atheist but I'm not sure, I have a lot of reservations. I completely support things like thinking about religion for yourself rather than following dogma and I don't like a lot of the culture of religion, if I can call it that - the elitist groups with initiation processes, believers looking down on non-believers, quoting very old books which then restricts human rights.

However, although I wasn't brought up in any set religion I think I had a lot of religious influences. The few openly atheist people I've met have been unpleasant and selfish, I know this isn't a reflection on all atheists or the majority but it's a bad start! Then there's my partner who is sort of religious. He hates religious groups because of things like particular groups starting wars but he uses a lot of religious terms for our relationship. Things like, 'we're destined to be together', referring to our souls, and 'we'll be together for eternity'. I know saying these things are very important to him and it makes it hard for me to be with him and think about atheism - I feel like I'm not matching his commitment!

I'm struggling with this. I want to be honest about my outlook and I don't want to be believing something unrealistic out of convenience or comfort. I also don't want to hurt my partner but I don't know how to respond to how he describes our relationship or explain how we feel in an atheist way - I don't even know how to explain love with atheism, it almost seems like atheism undermines it as only chemical attraction and not that important, (sorry, this is only the impression I've been given, I'm asking these things because I'd like to have a better answer). I would also like to meet atheists in real life that are nice - so far, I've only seen them online.

I found the New Humanist website a month or so ago and was almost interested in it until I did a quiz on the website called 'what type of humanist are you'. I lost all hope when I saw the multiple-choice answers included things ridiculing Christianity. I know religions make mistakes and cause problems but I think it's childish and offensive when people treat religious people as stupid!

Many thanks for your help in advance.

Answer
Hi, Amy...

Well, I will say that your question is interesting.  I'm going to venture a bit of a guess and assume you're on the somewhat younger side of the age spectrum.  I say this because of the terminology your partner uses in your relationship and because you mentioned that the atheists you've met are unpleasant.

In my experience, when a religious person converts to atheism, there is a period in which that person often does become a bit of an ass, especially if it occurs during their teens.  I suspect I was one, too.  Part of this is because we feel we've been lied to our whole lives, but worse: we fell for it!  So we're a little pissed off about that, and some of us get a little rude.  The good news is that most of us mellow out and get over ourselves.

As for meeting nice atheists in real life, that's going to depend on where you live.  Look online for a local group of atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, humanists, etc.  You're likely to find one.  Of course, the thing is... we non-believers tend not to be joiners to the degree that believers are, so such groups are never as common as religious groups, for example.

So... describing love without referring to souls, etc.  Well, personally, I don't see anything wrong with just allowing "emotion" to be the sole factor.  I mean, emotions are real.  They're complicated as all get-out.  They are more than just pheromonal attraction, since we care about what's inside a person's head, too.  For example, I could never see myself having a serious relationship with someone who didn't love animals, or who held socially conservative values.  Is that a "chemical attraction"?  I can't imagine how.  So there's far more going on than that.  But it doesn't need to have anything to do with the supernatural.

Now... here's where your post confused me a bit.  You say you weren't raised in a religious environment.  Had you been, your final paragraph would have made a lot more sense to me.  Because then I could have said, "Oh, she's going through the defensive stage of becoming an atheist, where she's still protective of her old religion."  Except you weren't a Christian.  But what's really surprising is that I looked at the New Humanist quiz you talk about... and there's not one thing on there that is "ridiculing Christianity."  I'm VERY curious to know what question(s), or rather, which answer(s) you felt did that.  Care to point them out to me?

The other thing to keep in mind about that quiz is this:  The quiz is not telling you how humanists believe.  The quiz is trying to assess how the quiz taker views things.  And you can't deny that there are people out there who do believe all the things covered by those answers... and much worse!  Believe me... no branch of humanism I've ever heard of ridicules religion.  That's not what it's about.

I'm also one of those types who believes it's possible to be spiritual in a completely secular way.  It all depends on how you define "spirit."  My definition just happens to have nothing supernatural about it.

I'd very much enjoy corresponding more with you, as I'm sure this just hits the tip of your iceberg.  If you'd like to do so outside of this forum, you can email me at vmwales@gmail.com.