Expert: Jeffrey Eldred - 8/16/2011

Question
Dear expert,


Some religions consider that wrongdoers deserve an infinite punishement after their death, because they alledgely commited an infinite fault:

indeed, according to apologists,
"God by His perfection has a infinite dignity
disobeying God's command equals insulting His infinite dignity,
Generally, punishement is proportional to the dignity of a direspected person.
Hence an infinite punishement for disrespecting God."


Do you really think disobeying God is an infinite fault?

When one 'violates' a person's dignity, the punishement is mainly due to the physical/psychological harm or humiliation thereby caused? but God, by definition, can't be harmed nor feel humiliated.

So what is your opinion on that subject, as an atheist?



Thank you

Answer
Thank you for the question.

You bring up an important objection to the argument - God is only as harmed or humiliated as he wishes to be. Not only that, but people can only commit harm to anyone as much as God permits it. This, of course, leads directly to the Problem of Evil. So I suspect the best argument anyone would have to explain why Hell is a deserving punishment for humans[1] would be the same as the best argument anyone had to explain why God permits evil in the world[2]. I've written criticisms of a large variety of theodicies before, but one in particular is especially relevant here[3]. In it I explain the vast resources that God has at his disposal to craft the soul of individuals without violating their free will (whatever that means), and then discuss whether theological concepts entail punishment or payment that takes the form of real harm, pain, and anguish. If you are interesting in my other writings on other theodicies and topics on the Problem of Evil, you can find them here[4][5][6].

A more direct problem I have with the theist defense of "infinite punishment for disrespecting God" is the premise that "punishment is proportional to the dignity of a disrespected person." I'm not sure that disrespecting someone with words alone should ever be even considered a crime because it would fall onto the freedom of expression[7]. Moreover I don't think that the "dignity" of a person should have their rights protected better than anyone, because that would seem to violate the principle of equal protection before the law[8]. So whatever notion of justice someone is appealing to when they say "punishment is proportional to the dignity of a disrespected person", it is not a standard of justice that I recognize. While I haven't fully explained why I valued the freedom of expression and or equal protection of the law, the point is that the defense of God still has most of its work cut out for it.

The theist defense of "infinite punishment for disrespecting God" seems to be appealing to some notion of retributive justice [9]. The argument that God's punishment is unfair in the first place seems to also be appealing to retributive justice (more directly). The way that I feel about retributive justice is that punishment should never be worse then the crime, but that punishment proportional to the crime is not always just. I don't take retributive justice as an axiom that principles of ethics rely on, but rather I think it needs justification. Some people would defend retributive justice from the notion of vengeance [10], and I don't recognize that as a valid rationale at all. Instead I think in more Utilitarian terms [11], in which any excessive harm is unjustified. Retribution is only justified when it is necessary for deterrence [12], rehabilitation [13], or containment [14].

I just don't understand why anyone would think causing pain to sentient creatures is a good thing in of itself, and to me the discussion need not go much further than that. It is a little bit distressing to see when (otherwise mild-mannered) believers attempt to explain why Hell is something that should be tolerated.

Links:
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_hell
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
[3] http://en.allexperts.com/q/Atheism-2724/2010/8/soul-making-theodicy-follow-1.htm
[4] http://en.allexperts.com/q/Atheism-2724/2009/12/Best-best-1.htm
[5] http://en.allexperts.com/q/Atheism-2724/2011/2/Theodicy-endurance.htm
[6] http://en.allexperts.com/q/Atheism-2724/2011/3/strange-theodicy.htm
[7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression
[8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_before_the_law
[9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retributive_justice
[10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge
[11] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism
[12] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_%28legal%29
[13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilitation_%28penology%29
[14] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incapacitation_%28penology%29