Expert: Rhapsody Love - 10/15/2011

Question
QUESTION: Hi Joyce,
Whenever I think of my dating and love life I feel soooo sad because I know I am not living up to my full potential.

I am 26 now and I haven't had a real boyfriend since I was 20. I've accidentally gotten myself into a few 'friends with benefits' situations (which I know now is definitely not what I want)! Generally, I go for the same type of guys; tall, attractive, sweet, funny, who have a stable job, ambition and real interests of their own and generally they pursue me to the point that there is no doubt in my mind that I'm the one they want. Sounds like I'm one lucky lady, right? At least it seems that way at first lol.

This is the pattern that has played out over the last 3 years:

Things go blissfully for awhile. We never talk about where the 'relationship' is going. Then, slowly (not more than 3 months into it) I notice his behavior change. He stops calling and wanting to see me as much. The sweet persona that drew me in seems to fade. When I call he seems annoyed; he doesn't initiate plans anymore, or consistently cancels at the last minute. He tells me that I am insecure. By this time, I've become emotionally involved so, against my better judgement, I try to keep things going because he's a good guy and I want to give him a chance (and I've kept it going up to a year!). I start to wonder if every sweet thing he said to me in the past was a lie. Anxiety eats me up and it's no fun! The story inevitably ends with me in tears, feeling heartbroken and foolish when I can no longer deny that he doesn't *really* want to be with me.

When I am out and about people often tell me that I have beautiful skin and eyes and exotic features, which I take an an enormous compliment! Coupled with that I also have a 4-year degree and I love to cook and do things to broaden my horizons and learn new skills.

Yes, that all sounds very conceited.

Point is: I have so much going for me and it's a blessing! On the flipside, I must be doing something SERIOUSLY WRONG to have such bad luck with men! ARGH!!

I've combed through dating advice sites, read books and listened to hours of podcasts to try to get a handle on this. It's almost funny!

I haven't been asked out for as long as I can remember, which is depressing.

Basically, I don't understand how to be attractive to men, or get what I want from dating. I end up letting whatever man I'm seeing be the one who totally defines what sort of relationship we will have because I don't know how to do it any differently. That's not always bad, but I'd like to have some input, too.

Even if someone did want to be my boyfriend, I don't know how to keep a relationship going. I'm not sure what I'd have to do to be a good girlfriend, which is what I want to be, of course! I want to get married someday :)

In short, I need to develop some better dating skills and learn how to relate to men. Even though I've learned quite a bit through experience, I still feel clueless.

Stuck in a rut! Any nudge you could give me in the right direction would be appreciated :)

ANSWER: Hi Sid,

If sleeping with them is not helping to make the relationship serious, then you need to get to know them better first and get to the point you think you know them well enough to ask if they'd be interested in a long term relationship (let them know upfront that that's what you're looking for).

If a guy calls you insecure, you need to ask what he means by that. If you know what he means or he's told you what you're doing that seems insecure, if you know how to respond, then, in a mature way (intelligent and secure about yourself) - to his face, say something like "it seems you have a problem with commitment." If he does, he's not for you since that's what you're looking for.

Men can be jerks; don't blame yourself. You need someone who wants you for who you are & there IS someone out there. You need to do some compromising, but not totally change yourself, especially in ways that don't make sense and are uncomfortable for you. Like a weird laugh maybe - some men can be turned off by something as simple as a laugh, but that's something that's hard to change & it's healthy to laugh. If you had a problem like that, I'd go to comedy clubs to hopefully meet someone who likes your laugh.

I don't understand when you say, "I haven't been asked out for as long as I can remember" after saying, "This is the pattern that has played out over the last 3 years." You're just feeling like a few months is a very long time, I think. Could it be you are insecure and lonely? Saying, "I end up letting whatever man I'm seeing be the one who totally defines what sort of relationship we will have because I don't know how to do it any differently." makes it sound like there is some insecurity there. If you have insecurities, you may need a way to build up your confidence. You should love yourself and love being with yourself - that will help you find someone who can love you, too (I went to therapy & read a lot of books with homework on how to have a higher self-esteem - the therapist was helpful, because I could bounce ideas off of her & I first did my homework to find someone who would do that with me - she was very helpful).

Don't act over-confident with a guy and brag about your education and career, because it takes generations for our culture to change and guys often still think they should be the superior and make a higher salary - it may be subconscious and he may consider himself up-to-date about his attitudes. I don't know where you live, but there are a lot of guys who are confident enough in themselves to be happy with an equal or even proud to be with someone of a higher income, education, career, or whatever, though if they're much older than you, they may not be interested in a long-term relationship if they've never had one or had some bad ones. If you're being confident and a secure, not-desparate, self-loving you, then after you get to know the guy & do some fun things together that you both enjoy, he could change his mind about wanting a long-term relationship and fall in love with you. Each time you date, you need to know that it might not work out, so relax and get to know him & let him get to know you. 26 is not too old or even 30 these days.

Start by doing things you both like together (except sex).  There are movies, cards, board games, Wii, going for walks, sight seeing, fishing, swimming, and many more possibilities. If he lets you say where to go one time, you let (insist if you have to) him decide next time. Same with paying for dinner/food and any expense in your activities together. An equal relationship is best. If you feel comfortable letting him be dominant in one activity (like if he insists on always being the driver) then if it's not many things, it's OK to let him dominate in some areas. He may like you to dominate in some areas, too, so don't make assumptions about that - ask ("would you like me to...?") or just do it and see how he reacts.

BTW, you don't want a "boy friend" & don't think of yourself as a "girl". You're a woman who wants a healthy relationship with a man that could turn into a long-term relationship (or why else would you ask me as that is what I give advice about).

You said you read a lot of books. Did you read about how men think differently than women? They do! It's not just cultural, it's hormonal and chromosomal, too - in other words, chemistry. I don't know if it would be better to find lower testosterone men (they tend to be more nerdy and less being "macho"), so your desire for someone who's looking especially attractive might need to be more just good-looking and attractive to you because he has the qualities you really want in a long term relationship - someone who loves you for you. By "nerd" or "nerdy-type", I mean someone who is not especially into sports and has more of a focus on a particular topic that he studies as much as a hobby as a career (it can also be his career but maybe not). These guys can be hard to find because sometimes they just like to watch TV & when he goes out, he may go out with his straight guy friends.

Do you want them to like art? Go to art galleries. Do you want them to like music? Go to karaoke places or concerts (though these may be hard places to find a guy, so use a dating system that's safe & reliable & find someone with the traits you like). Have you read books about traits so you know which ones you're looking for? Do you know what you'd like to do with a man?

I suggest some books on Myers Briggs and Enneagram to help you figure out a personality type that would work for you and some books will tell you careers that are good for that personality-type and other things they'll tend to like doing. I consider them pretty helpful. There are a lot of them, so browse to find the ones that work for you. If you like humor and cartoons, you'll like Elizabeth Wagele's many books that are especially good for making the topic easy to understand - for the lay person, not the psychologist.

I don't know what those dating books told you. Were they written by a psychologist? I think knowing they're personal experience is more important or equally important to their book knowledge & writing skills. Is the author a person who's been happily married for many years because the dating process is not still ongoing? Some people think they know about dating because they've done it a lot. :)  (Like you?) As you know, experience in dating does not necessarily make them experts - they need experience in a long-term relationship from having a few at one time (many years ago, showing success). They probably won't be from your generation or be able to write about how to do it in today's culture real well.

I know a bit about dating in today's culture, because I have children who are young adults and they're very open with me about their lives and they know I share from their live's experience in my volunteer work. I also belong to a church that have young adults that I'm friends with who share those kind of things. Higher education is limited in what it can teach; experience is often better - for me and for you. Sorry you're getting so much experience with dating, I hope you find the right guy and get some experience in that success as I and my children and some of my friends have done.

Good luck!

- Joyce

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Joyce,
You hit on alot of different topics here, which is very helpful to me :) Thank you!

I read through what you wrote and jotted down questions as they came to my mind, so pretty much every paragraph below is a different topic. I hope it's not too confusing.

I am scared to ask a guy if he is interested in a long term relationship because I have been told that is a sure way to drive men off. Let's say I do ask and he says, "Maybe," which has happened before. How should I take that?

When guys have told me I am insecure I assume it's because I am anxious and they confuse that with being insecure. Or maybe that is the definition of insecurity. I don't know. Why do you think it's important to ask him what he means? Does it really matter?

What's the definition of "being asked out" anyway? I consider it a date only if the guy specificially says it is a date. I have the hardest time getting guys to commit to even the most simple things like going on a date, and so that is why I wrote, "I end up letting whatever man I'm seeing be the one who totally defines what sort of relationship we will have." I know I shouldn't do this, but if I don't I end up fighting uphill every step of the way and sometimes I just want the man to lead instead of feeling like I am the one doing all the work to keep us together.

What were the names of some of the books you read to help build your self-esteem? I am definitely lonely, though I do enjoy my own company :)

I understand the idea of dating to see if you are a good fit rather than rushing into a relationship. And it's a great idea! What happens is that sometimes 6 months or a year will go by and I haven't go on any dates. When I finally go a date I *really* want things to work out! And if I notice certain things that don't work for me about this guy's values or lifestyle I start to tell myself, "Maybe my standards are too high," "Is that really important?" etc. Basically, I end up settling for less because it still seems like a better deal than being single for another year or longer.

How do you give yourself time to get to know each other and still not care about the end result?

What is a dating system? And what are books about traits? I have read some books and done tests for Myers Briggs and Enneagram. Is that the same thing?

I know that is alot of questions and if you can't answer them all I understand.

Thank you for your help sofar I think you made many excellent suggestions :)

Answer
Hi Sid,

I'm copying your questions and putting a ">>" in front of each one so I can keep track and you'll know which question I'm answering. Please understand that I'm answering in the sense of what I would do if I was in your circumstance. I don't believe there's an absolute right or wrong answer since each person and each relationship is different.

>>I am scared to ask a guy if he is interested in a long term relationship because I have been told that is a sure way to drive men off. Let's say I do ask and he says, "Maybe," which has happened before. How should I take that?

I would simply say, "Well, that's not an answer. What does that mean?" I would take it as a non-answer and would feel that I'm justified in feeling insulted, but acting insulted is another story, because it could just be his way of communicating. He might just not know - he may have never even thought of it.

>>When guys have told me I am insecure I assume it's because I am anxious and they confuse that with being insecure. Or maybe that is the definition of insecurity. I don't know. Why do you think it's important to ask him what he means? Does it really matter?

I think all communication matters in a relationship that you want to be life-long. I suppose two people who are not very communicative and don't care about these matters can do fine without it, but you're asking the question, so I think it does matter to you. Don't you want a mate who cares about communicating to/with you? Besides, you could learn something from it that could help you progress in your dating. You may be insecure (anxious or whatever you want to call it) about finding out what the answer is.

>>What's the definition of "being asked out" anyway? I consider it a date only if the guy specificially says it is a date. I have the hardest time getting guys to commit to even the most simple things like going on a date, and so that is why I wrote, "I end up letting whatever man I'm seeing be the one who totally defines what sort of relationship we will have." I know I shouldn't do this, but if I don't I end up fighting uphill every step of the way and sometimes I just want the man to lead instead of feeling like I am the one doing all the work to keep us together.

Why does a guy have to make a specific date with you? What's wrong with just enjoying each other when you're somewhere together? No one needs to necessarily ask the other and if asking is necessary, why does it have to be done by the guy? You can suggest something, by being indirect, and let the man think it was his choice to ask you. If you don't mind having that kind of a relationship ongoing - giving in to his ego (I think I do that with my husband & it's worked out well for me, but it's like "saving face" - I'm making it easier for him to do something I think he wants to do any way, but, of course, it's also something I want). If you know yourself and have a feel for what will work with a guy, then you might be more in control of the relationship than you know. You influence how it goes rather than "control it". If you assert your influence through communications and attitudes that attract him to you by telling & showing him what things you appreciate about what he does, he may continue to do those things.

>What were the names of some of the books you read to help build your self-esteem? I am definitely lonely, though I do enjoy my own company :)

That was years ago and I borrowed the books from the library. I journaled, though, and I didn't write the names of the books, but they were about psychology in general and some were about meditation and journaling. I also went to some religious (Unitarian Universalist) workshops, conferences and Women's Retreats and journaled about what I learned from those. Even when I learn about doing social justice work, I'm learning about myself, because I'm learning what I feel comfortable with and what doesn't feel comfortable to me - where I feel my strengths and weaknesses are. It's important to know yourself so you can go ahead in your life with confidence. Our lives continue to change, so we need to continue to learn.

>>I understand the idea of dating to see if you are a good fit rather than rushing into a relationship. And it's a great idea! What happens is that sometimes 6 months or a year will go by and I haven't go on any dates. When I finally go a date I *really* want things to work out! And if I notice certain things that don't work for me about this guy's values or lifestyle I start to tell myself, "Maybe my standards are too high," "Is that really important?" etc. Basically, I end up settling for less because it still seems like a better deal than being single for another year or longer. How do you give yourself time to get to know each other and still not care about the end result?

Of course you care about the end result. But what are your expectations? Yes, you should question them and you should question what "standards" mean to you. There will be things you feel you can't compromise on and things you can, but ask yourself if his having the same standards and expectations as you are important. Often people of different religions marry and it works out. Read Marian Wright Edelman's "Measure of Our Success: A Letter to My Children and Yours" - it's about basic values and the fact that she married a man who's Jewish (and white) when she's the daughter of a Baptist preacher (and black). You don't need to be thinking about having children to read it - it's about basic life values and what is important in life. If you start from what really is important and then consider those things in relation to someone you're seeing, it might give you a different perspective on whether or not that person would make a good partner for you.


>>What is a dating system?

Well, I didn't remember hearing that term exactly, though I would consider it a plan (system) for dating. I looked it up on Wikipedia. There's a lot of good reading there and resources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating

>>And what are books about traits? I have read some books and done tests for Myers Briggs and Enneagram. Is that the same thing?

They are psychological theories, not absolutes, but they're tools that can help you learn about yourself and who might be a good match for you. These are specifically personality traits whereas there are other traits people have, such as appearance and genetic.

>>I know that is alot of questions and if you can't answer them all I understand.

These are just my opinions. I hope they are useful to you. If so, please give me a rating & some feedback.

- Joyce