Expert: Susan Dunn, Dating Coach - 6/13/2007

Question
QUESTION: Hi Susan,
Is it better to marry someone of your own race, religion, culture, traditions, and political beliefs in order to have a smoother marriage? The reason I ask this is because I am an immigrant, so I generally date and have serious relationships men outside of my race. What have you seen in marriages.
Thanks,
Ana

ANSWER: Is it better to marry someone of your own race, religion, culture, traditions, and political beliefs in order to have a smoother marriage? ABSOLUTELY.

What have I seen in marriages?  That it's smoother the more closely they match in culture, traditions, and religion.  Politics and race don't matter as much. (And BTW, this stuff really kicks up when there are kids.)

Susan Dunn
www.susandunn.cc

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Oh ok. Well there are no men of my race, culture, traditions, or religion anywhere near where I live. So I've always dated outside. What would you do if you were me.
ANSWER: I'd look very hard for one, if I were you.

And I'm only half joking.

It has never worked for me and I haven't seen it work much for others.  And "culture" breaks down rather small -- in the US there are radical differences from region to state even to county or town.  The Germans in XX town in Texas are all Republicans.  In XX town in Texas, the Germans are all Democrats.  

You also must factor in level of education and income level.    

BTW, What on earth is your race, religion and culture that there are so few here?  This is the great melting pot!  Or are you in some rural area?  I have made a guess, so let me know!  I'm curious.  

Anyway, if I were you, just keep doing what you're doing -- date people who appeal to you for their qualities, but be careful,  EXTRA SPECIALLY CAREFUL about your assumptions.  Italian men say "I love you, I want you, bella, bella" to any pretty women on the street, and they think all women are bella!  A German guy may say "I love you" once in his life, and it means "You are the woman I want to marry.  Forever."  And you may not hear him say it again in your lifetime - but he will act it out.  (Don't argue with me on 'points,' please, just take the gist of this.  You know what I'm getting at.)

Since I don't know your culture, let's begin with -- I don't know what you mean by marriage, or even a "smooth marriage," BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW YOU.  To me, for instance, I expect both me and him to be faithful, and this is not negotiable.  He cheats on me and I catch him, I divorce him.  I expect the man to provide. I expect a courtship, i.e., if you aren't considering me for "serious," and are just dating for romance or "a good time," then move on down the line.  I expect him to pay me respect and not oggle other women in public (and I do the same).  I'm Protestant, so I have the "Protestant work ethic."  Persons of another culture have called me "a workaholic."  We don't have to go to church together, or at all, but I didn't mix well with the Catholic gentleman who expected that we would start every day by going to Mass.    

So ... whatever you're after here, check out assumptions very carefully all along the way.  Don't assume a thing.  You can't afford to.  As the relationship builds watch, and then when the time is right talk about it.  If he's a devout Muslim, he's not going to allow pork or liquor in the house.  If he's Hispanic, the two of you may end of taking care of the parents or the grandparents, like in your house.  Your culture might be one where there's always wine at dinner and bacon for breakfast, and the parents and grandparents take care of themselves and then leave a lot in their will.  Nobody lives with anybody else, ever.  Could you handle it the other way?  I mean, REALLY?

Just a few examples.  

More than that, test him out by his actions.  When we are in love, or enamoured, we make all sorts of promises.  Like they warn the men on the Russian women dating sites.  The Russian women, they say, are desperate to marry American men, and so they say what the men want to hear.

Check to see how flexible he is. Because when you have kids, and it comes time to baptize them or not, or circumcize them or not...I'm sure you read the latest thing about the divorced couple - he's Orthodox Jew and she's Russian Orthodox, and he insists their son be circumcized and she says "no way" - and they are serious enough that it has gone to Court.  And the heck with the parents, what about this poor boy, being torn apart.  You have to provide a united front to the children or you'll drive them nuts.  

If one or the other of you is rigid about something, you might as well find it out early on, and then see if you can honestly live with it, so keep your head about you, and pay attention to all those clues you'd rather ignore.  Hold off getting really involved (like physically) with someone until you have an idea of their maturity, and willingness to work together.  

Educational level and maturity (emotional intelligence) can almost tip over the cultural differences, because you would both, then, have been around, and had a chance to see that culture is relative.  You eat with your right hand - fingers - in the Middle East, and with a fork in your hand (either hand) in the US.  The original reasons for this are long lost in the past and no longer relevant.  I'm sure you're aware of all this.  It's just that when it's your life, and your love, it gets serious.  

All marriages have their rough spots, and they all take a lot of working through, and understanding.  My husband and I were from what most people would say was "the same cultlure," but in HIS house, his mother did all the things like getting the car tuned, going to the cleaners, paying the bills, calling the repairmen.  In MY house, my father did all those things.  So the first year we just stood there waiting for the other one to do it and getting mad.

LOL

I will go back to the fact that you initially used the term "smoother marriage."  Well, they all have their rough spots, and I think any two people in love, and who are committed to each other and to the relationship and the wellbeing of the children, can surpass all kids of difficulties and differences of opinion. And basically, if you had the guts to emigrate, you're probably open to such things, and what we are really talking about here is "differences of opinion."

But what if I date a guy from ______ and he believes that any two people can make a marriage work as long as they do everything his way, because his culture and way of doings this is right?

Keep your eyes open and I wish you luck.  You are way ahead of the game to have asked the question -- of yourself.  I shared a bit with you, but you're a smart girl and you can figure it out yourself.

P.S.  If you enjoy this sort of thing, study other cultures, so you know more what you're getting into.  I just read "Charlie Wilson's War" and one of the things that made the CIA guy so effective was that he knew a whole lot about a whole lot of different cultures, and therefore knew how to work with them.    

Best,
Susan Dunn
www.susandunn.cc



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Susan,

Thanks for the excellent response. I grew up in the US and I'm 25 years old, originally from India, so yes if I drive into Chicago certainly there are plenty of Indian men around but I have found that I 'click' much better with Caucasian/white men or even men from other minority groups. Or maybe I just haven't found an Indian guy I 'click' with yet? Actually the other reason is that maybe they are the only men that have pursued me or taken an interest in me, so it's not really either of us necessarily seeking each other out but just how it happened.

But I am a serious girl...I do date here and there but I definitely don't mess around with guys for the heck of it and hold high standards. I'm also very hesitant to get physically involved right away, and I'm waiting until I'm married (or at least engaged) to have sex. This isn't a cultural thing incidentally - I just want to wait for the right one, that's all. I also happen to be very outgoing and very beautiful (hope I don't come off as conceited) and I have a really voluptuous body...I look very similar to Salma Hayek...so the fact that I am a 25 year old virgin compared with my looks and mannerisms really throws people off. LOL!!!

But yes, marriage is a lot of hard work, and I think people nowadays don't really want to work things through the way they did in the old days, there is a lot of divorce. One or two things go wrong, a couple months of nasty fights, and the marriage is over! They don't even try to work things out. And I notice there is a lot of cheating...even I've been cheated on numerous times (both within my race and out of it - when a guy's a scumbag, he's a scumbag, race knows no bounds LOL), luckily the guys all did me a favor and broke up with me very early on in the relationship otherwise I would have been taken for a nasty ride the way many other women are...I really don't understand all the sleeping around these days...it's NOT just the men doing it anymore, the women are just as bad, in fact I think they seem worse than the guys!

But yeah it is amazing how you can have everything in common and yet still the families are so different! Such as even my cousins and aunts and uncles are totally different from us and have different customs - and we're all from the same city Calcutta, yet different parts of Calcutta are so different. It's a different situation with everyone too. Yeah, you just never know.

Well either way I'm not planning on rushing into a marriage now...I just wanted to ask someone with a bit more experience in life. And you certainly have that.

Take care and talk to you soon,
Ana

Answer
My responses in caps just cuz there's no other way to to do it.
__________________
Thanks for the excellent response. I grew up in the US and I'm 25 years old, originally from India, so yes if I drive into Chicago certainly there are plenty of Indian men around but I have found that I 'click' much better with Caucasian/white men or even men from other minority groups. Or maybe I just haven't found an Indian guy I 'click' with yet? Actually the other reason is that maybe they are the only men that have pursued me or taken an interest in me, so it's not really either of us necessarily seeking each other out but just how it happened.  GO WITH IT.  HEARING THIS, YOU'RE COSMOPOLITAN AND MIXED-CULTURE, SO THE APPEAL SHOULD BE RATHER WIDE.  JUST FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T LIVE WITH.  MY FAMILY MOVED (UNDER GOOD CIRCUMSTANCES) EVERY 2 YRS WHEN i WAS A KID, SO I'M A REAL CULTURAL RELATIVIST.  

But I am a serious girl...I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT
I do date here and there but I definitely don't mess around with guys for the heck of it and hold high standards. GOOD FOR YOU.

I'm also very hesitant to get physically involved right away, and I'm waiting until I'm married (or at least engaged) to have sex. EXCELLENT IDEA.  IT WORKS.  SEX IS JUST SEX, AND MARRIAGE IS ABOUT A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN THAT.  I ALWAYS SAY "MARRIAGE IS AN 8 HR CAR DRIVE WITH NO RADIO."  HE'D BETTER BE AN INTERESTING AND ENTERTAINING CONVERSATONALIST!!!

This isn't a cultural thing incidentally - YES, TRUE.  IT'S MORE THAN "CULTURE: - IT'S VALUES. THAT IS THE #1 THING i WOULD LOOK FOR (AND DO LOOK FOR).  YOU CAN WEED OUT THE PLAYERS BECAUSE THEY EXPECT TO "GET SEX" BY THE 3RD DATE, SO BETTER TO KNOW THIS EARLY.    

I just want to wait for the right one, that's all. I also happen to be very outgoing and very beautiful (hope I don't come off as conceited) and I have a really voluptuous body...I look very similar to Salma Hayek...so the fact that I am a 25 year old virgin compared with my looks and mannerisms really throws people off. LOL!!!  THAT'S FINE.  

But yes, marriage is a lot of hard work, and I think people nowadays don't really want to work things through the way they did in the old days, there is a lot of divorce. YES  One or two things go wrong, a couple months of nasty fights, and the marriage is over! YES  They don't even try to work things out. FIND SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS CONCEPT!  And I notice there is a lot of cheating...  YES  even I've been cheated on numerous times (both within my race and out of it - when a guy's a scumbag, he's a scumbag, race knows no bounds LOL), THERE YOU HAVE IT -- VALUES, CHARACTER, MATURITY

luckily the guys all did me a favor and broke up with me very early on in the relationship otherwise I would have been taken for a nasty ride the way many other women are...YOU'RE SMART, ABLE TO LEARN FROM THE EXPERIENCES OF OTHERS!

I really don't understand all the sleeping around these days...it's NOT just the men doing it anymore, the women are just as bad, in fact I think they seem worse than the guys!  THAT'S WHAT'S CREATED SUCH A PROBLEM ... AND IT IS A PROBLEM.  NOBODY KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON, AND THE GUYS SURE AREN'T GOING TO SAY 'NO.'  SO ESTABLISH THAT YOU ARE 'DIFFERENT' IN THIS RESPECT.  THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.

But yeah it is amazing how you can have everything in common and yet still the families are so different! Such as even my cousins and aunts and uncles are totally different from us and have different customs - and we're all from the same city Calcutta, yet different parts of Calcutta are so different. It's a different situation with everyone too. Yeah, you just never know.  TRUE.  YOU HAVE A GOOD GRASP ON THE SITUATION.  VALUES ARE PART OF CULTURE, BUT ALSO BIGGER THAN CULTURE. THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES, ETC IN THE US THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PLACES THAT ARE UNI, AND A BIG CITY LIKE CHICAGO.  OH MY!  (I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL IN WINNETKA, WHICH IS ABOUT AS HOMOGENEOUS AS IT GETS.)

WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS THE RIGHT GUY FOR YOU, WHO FEELS THE SAME WAY ABOUT YOU, AND WE CAN BREAK IT DOWN, BUT THE WHOLE WILL STILL BE GREATER THAN THE SUM OF THE PARTS.  WHEN IT WORKS, IT WORKS.   

Well either way I'm not planning on rushing into a marriage now...I just wanted to ask someone with a bit more experience in life. And you certainly have that.  LOL.
THANK YOU.  IF YOU'D LIKE SOME COACHING, LET ME KNOW.  I'LL WALK YOU THROUGH IT.  YOU HAVE A GOOD MINDSET HERE, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME.  BE WILLING TO GIVE A MAN A CHANCE (REGARDLESS OF CULTURE, ETHNIC, ETC.) AND THEN TEST FOR THE THINGS THAT REALLY MATTER TO YOU.  A SENSE OF HUMOR REALLY HELPS - MY FRIEND WHERE SHE'S US AND HE'S FRENCH MOROCCAN, SUFI - WHENEVER SHE WANTS HIM TO DO SOMETHING, SHE SAYS "MEN DO THAT IN THE US" AND THEY LAUGH BECAUSE THEY KNOW SHE'S KIDDING TO GET WHAT SHE WANTS (LIKE FOR HIM TO TAKE OUT THE GARBAGE).  BUT THEY ARE BOTH VERY BRIGHT, EDUCATED AND WELL TRAVELED, SO THEY CAN JOKE THAT WAY.  AND SHE IS VERY EASY-GOING BECAUSE HE'S THE ONE WITH THE RULES (NO PORK, NO LIQUOR, RAMADAN, ETC.)

THE WORKPLACE IN THE US NOW IS SO MULTICULTURAL, MANY OF US ARE DEALING WITH THIS ON A DAILY BASIS, AND WE FIND ONE ANOTHER, WHETHER GREEN, PURPLE OR POLKA-DOTTED, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.  "HOWL SO YOUR PACK CAN FIND YOU."

It's been a pleasure and I wish you good luck.  The man who finds you will be lucky indeed.

Best,
Susan Dunn
www.susandunn.cc