Expert: Susan Dunn, Dating Coach - 7/29/2007

Question
Dear Susan,

I asked you a question a while ago which you responded to. I cut and pasted my question to another expert and he gave me a completely different answer. Please read this and tell me what you think. What is right and what is wrong?

thanks!
-Sue

QUESTION: Hello,
I am a virgin and the guy I was dating was not, although he definitely knew I desired him very much. I thought he was the man I was going to marry but turned out he was a total scumbag. He was cheating on me with 3 other women the entire time we were together, since I was not giving him sex, and he ended up coldly dumping me for one of them. That woman had a boyfriend back home, so they were basically just hooking up for sex.

By the way, it's not that I did not ever want to have sex with him or anything like that, I was just waiting until things got more serious with him to become intimate.

However, the entire time, he never made any moves on me or pushed me to have sex in any way, and he was always very gentle with me. That's why I was surprised when I was dumped, but then I found out the real reason. And now that he's dating her, he's having sex with another 4 different girs now. He is quite the player.

Do you have any idea, if he was just on the prowl for sex anyway, and did not seem to want a girlfriend, why did he bother trying to build a relationship with me when all he wanted was hookups and one night stands, and also why was he so gentle with me and why did he never push me for sex if that's all he really wanted?

Thanks

ANSWER: Hello Sue!

This is (unfortunately) a mistake many women make - even non-virgins. Let me explain:

What you wanted was him to invest himself in you completely and then and only then (when it was completely safe for you) that you'd consider adding sex to your relationship.

I'm sorry Sue, that's just stupid! Why should any man go to the ends of the earth to give you everything you could possibly want when you're not doing that for him too?

Sex isn't the result of a relationship - it's one of the processes along the way. You see, almost all men have what I call a "window of opportunity" built into them. We won't invest our hearts until we've had a woman physically because that is (for us) a step along the way.

The problem is that if that window closes (and it's different for every guy - there are no "standards") you'll never have our hearts. Sure, we'll still have sex with you, but that's it. There's a lot of psychology behind this I won't go into, but suffice it to say that changes the game somewhat. We know that YOU (as the woman) control the sex and we can't know what your agenda is. Thus, we eventually have to just move on and get our sexual needs met elsewhere.

This guy isn't a "scumbag" because he wanted sex. All men are going to want sex with you as your relationship progesses and if we aren't getting it from you, we feel free to get it elsewhere. That's just the way it is.

Yes, he should have tried to move this forward, but considering all the stories you hear about women screaming "rape" and "sexual harrassement", I'm surprised that ANY man is willing to do this! Not an excuse by the way, just an observation.

I don't know this guy and thus, I can't tell you what is motivation was. Here's what I do know: most men want to have sex with a number of women both for the experience and for the possibilities of a relationship. These men finally find someone they feel strongly about and then settle down with just her.

He probably wasn't so much about the sex itself, but he wanted the full package. When he found out that you were a virgin he probably believed that he'd never have that with you and moved on to greener pastures.

Best regards...

Dr. Dennis W. Neder

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Ok some things don't make sense. A couple times I told him I wanted to lose my virginity to him, and he just snapped "we're not ready to have sex yet" and dumped me to have sex with other women. Hmm.

Now, he is emailing me saying he loves me and misses me.

What is going on?

ANSWER: Hello again Sue!

That was most likely due to your expectation that he exchange everything for having sex with you.

I'm sure he misses you. You can't spend any time with someone on even the most rudimentary emotional level without having some connection between you.

Best regards...

Dr. Dennis W. Neder

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: When I first met him, he knew I was a virgin, and he said "Don't worry, I haven't had sex for a year, I don't mind waiting another year for you."

So does this mean I actually meant something to him? Or was I going to be just another notch on the bedpost?

Answer:

Hey Sue!

I'm not really concerned with what he says - and neither should you be. Actions are everything, words, nothing.

It doesn't mean either. He very likely had no plan and wanted to see what you were all about. He determined that you were the kind of girl that; only after doing everything he could, promising you the world, taking responsibility for every ounce of your security, spending tons of money on you and months upon months of trying to convince you to trust him, maybe, possibily then and only then there might be a small chance you would he sleep with him. Then, he realized you weren't worth it.

Best regards...

Dr. Dennis W. Neder
---------------

Ok so here is a COMPLETELY different answer that I get from men than I get from women like you. Can you see why the youth and younger developing women like me are so confused? We don't know quite what to do because everything everyone tells us is conflicting, and everything we do turns out to be wrong.

Please tell me what you think. I'm not slamming the other expert, just want to know what you think. And what's the best thing for ME.

Thanks!
Sue

Answer
Hi Sue,

I would strongly recommend that you get individualized coaching because you are asking very complex questions in emails.  What applies to one person, does not apply to all.  You are a unique individual.  

What I think you're asking is how you can avoid this sort of thing happening again.  This relationship did not fail simply because of the "S" word, and you did not do anything wrong. They all end poorly until the right combination comes along.  You cannot avoid some of them not working out -- it's what we go through to get the right one.  It's part of it.  

General thoughts.  It was reported to me, though I can't verify this that in a recent magazine article Catherine Zeta-Jones said she made Michael Douglas pursue/court her for 9 months with no touching and no kissing.  She said (reportedly)that she wanted to make sure she was wife material...

Now the word "made."  Did she "make" him?  It takes two.  Clearly he found this quite fine.  It isn't always a fight.

When a big star says this, does it carry more weight?

Here's an everyday example.  A coaching client of mine who just didn't sleep with guys before marriage.  That's was who she is.  Her guy asked her on a cruise and she said great, she would need to bring her mother along for a chaperone, and he said "fine" and treated them all to a great vacation--her mom and her in one room, him in another.  They later married.   

The thing is that you have to work out your own policy and modus operandi.   That's how you attract the guy who is right for YOU.  THis is not the guy for me, or for Kylie, or for the approval of someone else, this is the guy FOR YOU.  

Gather advice and then figure out what FEELS RIGHT TO YOU.  I strongly recommend individualized coaching for you, to sort through all this (email me at sdunn@susandunn.cc if you'd like information).  Coaches ask questions.  Then you learn your own wisdom, which you already have, actually.  

It is heartbreaking when it doesn't work out with a guy you love.  We tend to go back over and over was it something I did?  Something I said?  Did I do something wrong?  If you inquire of the other, well no one likes to hurt someone else, and furthermore, we often just do not know why it didn't work out.  We take something and present it.  Like "This wasn't about you, it's about me." It's a feeling.  Sometimes there aren't words for it.  You can even love each other and know that marriage won't work out between the two of you.  I suggest you fast-forward that stage where you think you did something wrong.  The relationship just didn't work out -- it takes two.

If you feel you missed early cues, or are unsure of your position. that's what coaching is for.  If you want to solidify your own position, and learn to know and trust your instincts, that's what emotional intelligence coaching is about.  This will benefit all parts of your life, of which dating is only a part. The data always runs out.   

Have faith in yourself and that you will find a guy who feels the same way about things that you do!

Susan Dunn
mailto:sdunn@susandunn.cc
www.susandunn.cc