Expert: Dr. Dennis W. Neder - 11/11/2009

Question
QUESTION: Ok, so I was seeing this girl who I really like. It was like love at first site to me.  We went on 6 great dates, (saw her once a week, and talked during the week to set up plans) and I thought everything was going well.  I am 33 and she is 28, but she has been divorced for about a year from someone who from what I know was very controlling.  Her divorce was very hard on her and I know there are still lingering feelings.  I met her on match.com.  She joined match (for only a month) after being persuaded by her parents as a way for her to get use to “going out” again.  I cooked dinner for us on our fifth date, it was very romantic.  She baked me an Oreo cookie pie because she knows I like Oreo cookies.  I was impressed.  On our 6th date (Sat night) she invited me over back to her parents house (she moved back there after the divorce) where I met them and she cooked me dinner this time.  She said that “she can’t wait” until I come over.  She went all out.  Made us a great dinner, bought the type of red wine I like and even a bottle of white wine just in case.  She even bought a Danish ring from Panara Bread for us.  We had also moved on sexually at this point but no sex yet.  It seemed like she liked me and was into me.  There was chemistry.  It felt good!  I text her the following day thanking her for a wonderful evening.  She replied back saying that she was glad I enjoyed everything.  
A few days later (Tues), I called her to make plans to see her again for the weekend.  She said it would have to be the following week because her friend was flying out for the weekend.  I said that was fine because I had to work a few extra shifts at work so ill catch her next week.  I decided to send her flowers over the weekend (on Saturday, no roses) just because I really appreciated her and the way things were going and what she did for me.  I thought that would be a classy move.  


She called to thank me that night but I missed her call so she left me a voice message saying thank you and she would call me at the beginning of the week.  Sunday I text her saying “I’m glad you liked the flowers, I hope they made you smile”.  She replied, “They most definitely did, thank you!”  A few days went by and still no call.  She’s a teacher and the school year was just beginning so I gave her the benefit of the doubt.  I know she has been really stressed.  I called her on Wednesday to see how her first day went.  She told me about her day and her weekend.  She loved the flowers I sent her and it made her happy.  I tried to make plans with her again for the weekend but said she had a fund raiser on Friday and just wanted to “lay low” Saturday and Sunday.  I knew something was wrong.
I let about 5 days go by until I called her again.  When I called, we spoke; everything was cool until I asked to see her again.  When I confronted her, she said “I think we are looking for different things and she didn’t want me to waste my time.”  I asked her what she is looking for and she replied “I don’t know what I want.  I thought I was ready for a relationship but I’m not.”  She said that she had met a few guys off match, but I was the only one who she saw for that long.  I said, “that because you like me”.  She said, “Yea, that’s the thing.  I like talking to you, hanging out with you, but she feels like I would be wasting my time and she didn’t want to lead me on.”  It was very confusing.  Although I am looking for a relationship, I was not looking to rush into one but I must have given her that vibe.  I was just having fun dating her and didn’t mean to scare her off.  I am a very passionate person and I tried to play everything cool but I’m thinking that I unintentionally put pressure on her.
So I left the ball in her court.  I told her that I would like to continue seeing her, she has my #, and if she didn’t then I wish her luck.  She said thanks for understanding and we said goodnight.  The next day she text me that she would still like to keep in touch, see how I’m doing with work, school, and to see how my grandma is doing (she fell broke her hip and was supportive of me when that was taking place).  I text her the next day saying that I would like that also because I enjoyed our time together, however short it was.  I didn’t know if she was just trying to be nice but within 2 weeks, she emailed me wanting to see how everything was going.  5 days later I responded saying that everything was good, my grandmothers doing ok, and I’m glad she’s doing well.  I was going to leave it generic but instead, last minute, I added that I was confused about what happened and that if she wanted things to be more casual then that would have been ok.  I also said that it would be nice to meet up for coffee and catch up sometime.  I began making myself crazy thinking that I sounded needy in that e-mail so I texted her 3 days later saying the things I said sounded good at the moment but maybe better left unsaid.  I tried fixing what I thought was bad but I think I made it worse.  Well she didn’t respond to my text that day or to my email.  It’s been a month now.  I knew I may have put more pressure on her and didn’t really expect her to contact me.  
I know I should let go, but I really liked her and want another chance.  I also don’t know if I should put myself out there one last time.  It’s really her move.  I told myself if I were to try again, I would wait a full month.  I was going to write a generic email so there would be no pressure of any kind.  Recently I saw a psychologist, a PhD, if that means anything.  She thinks that a generic email to her at this point is just BS because yes, if she is nice she will respond, but then what.  She said that this girl knows that you like her and that any email to her, “being generic,” trying to play it cool, or saying you want things casual, would only be backpedaling.  She said psychologically, and as a woman, if I just told her how I feel it would be best.  Talk to her.  Tell her she doesn’t need to respond.  Tell her “you like her, “she’s beautiful,” you respect her decision,” “that’s its been a while since I met anyone like you”.  The Doc said that would make a greater impact than any generic email I could possible write at this time.  Just let her know and move on.  Verbally would be best.  She can either appreciate you and your ability to express yourself or not.  At least you will have closure knowing you did everything that you could and if she doesn’t see that, then she doesn’t deserve you.
I’m curious in your opinion.  What should I do?  How should I proceed. I don’t want to come across as crazy or super needy.  Does my psychologist make sense?  I know there is a whole game to be played and rules of attraction, mystery, and stuff like that, but I think that ship has sailed.  I’m passionate and no matter how cool I played it showed.  Anyway, is it worth a shot?  Thanks!





ANSWER: Hello John!

DO NOT do what your psychologist told you to do!!! DO NOT email her all that schmaltzy stuff!

Yes, it'll make an impact all right - and send her flying in the other direction! I am constantly amazed that women tell guys these ridiculous things. John, in dealing with (quite literally) many thousands of situations exactly like this one, that move has NEVER worked - EVER!

What she's suggesting you do is to gain closure, but in fact, you're also giving this girl closure as well! When it's all comfortable, there's no need to change things or move them anywhere. It's the tension that causes people to react - not comfort. Can you see the logic in that?

Here's what very likely happened: she met someone else on Match and is dating him instead. You don't know how well this guy is working out for her, but if you close things up all nice and tidy, there's no reason for her to start chasing you again. You'll have already played your hand. There's nothing to go back for! All these compliments and "baring your soul" simply are more weakness - almost like an apology.

Instead, you need to see this how SHE should be seeing it. She lost a HUGE opportunity with her lack of direction. She made a huge mistake in this. Don't make it easy for her, make it tough for her! If this choice costs her nothing, then, guess what it's worth to her? Yep: nothing.

Instead, you need to find 3 new girls you want to start dating. Frankly, I suggest you AVOID match.com entirely for many reasons:

1) it's far, far easier to meet great women just out living your life
2) ...and far more successful too.
3) Match.com's actual results are dismal. They don't publish these for that very reason, but I've obtained inside material on them. eHarmony, match and other sites have far less than a fraction of a percent positive outcomes.
4) This artificial meeting system is what causes people (like your girl) to do these dumb things. In the back of her mind, she met you artificially and thus, the entire relationship was artificial.
...and many others...

So, where does this leave you? At this point, the distance and time are both your ally. Don't contact her - not even for your own closure. Instead, wait for her to contact you - which she very likely will when things go south with the new guy.

That's when you hold her feet to the fire. You don't make it easy or comfortable. Instead, you let her know that you think she's out of her mind for being so unstable (frankly, a word I *love* to use when it comes to women - it works very directly on their psyche and the things they NEED in their lives!) and for making such bad decisions. Then, when you close that door, you open a window. You can casually ask her if and how she plans to make it up to you. Then, get very quiet and let her tell you.

Best regards...

Dr. Dennis W. Neder
President/CEO
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
Remington Publications
BAM! TV
818.334.8826
http://beingaman.com
http://beingaman.tv
Publishers of "Being a Man in a Woman's World I & II"
Producers of "BAM! TV"

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks Dr. Needer.  What you said makes a lot of sense and I am not going to contact her.  Yes, I think my psychologist was telling me this so I can get closure and move on.  I just felt that my previous email to her, which was suppose to be generic so she can respond back, put additional pressure on her.  When I tried to fix it with a text a few days later, I think I made it worse.  Hence, a month has gone by and she has not responded.
Anyway, my question to you now.
a) Do I ever contact her again if I don’t hear from her?  I don’t see her, but I see her mom whenever I go to the dentist.  She seems to like me.  Can I use that to my advantage?
b) If and when she ever responds, probably with an email, should I just keep it “generic?”  I like how you said to tell her that I think “she’s out of her mind for being so unstable and for making such bad decisions.”  Is that something I should say in response to her first email?
I appreciate you help.  This is my first time using AllExperts.Com and I am very impressed! I have told a few people at work about this site.  Thanks again!
John


ANSWER: Hello again John!

a) Yes, the mom can be used to your advantage - possibly. However, I see this working against guys all the time too! Many girls lose interest in guys when their mother's like them! Some don't. It just depends on the relationship she has with her mother.

As to contacting her, I said before: time is your ally. Give her at least another month or so. Even better, give her 2 or 3 months - she may contact you which would be optimum. However, remember: she's very likely getting 20 or 30 responses from match EVERY DAY! She sees you as just one more in a sea of thousands. This is yet ANOTHER reason why you need to avoid these sites! It's nearly impossible to stand out and if she's the kind of girl that likes to chase the "shiny object" (the next big thing) and many girls are, you have nothing to work with here.

b) No, you should keep it moving toward your goals. If you want to continue dating her, make everything you do with her contingent on that.

In other words, if she contacts you to check in and wants to chat on the phone, tell her "no, we can chat in person if that's what you want." The reason for this is that using texting, phones and email as a "buffer" between you and she simply keeps you at arm's length. What you want isn't something sanitized and without connection - you want the opposite. If you get with her in person, you can build that. You can never do so via email, texting or the phone.

If you have to respond via email, be short and to the point. Use that "unstable" line by saying something like, "Hello - I hope you're doing well. If you want to chat, I'd consider meeting you in person over a drink, but I'm not going to continue this instability thing via email. What's best for you, Friday or Saturday night?"

Best regards...

Dr. Dennis W. Neder
President/CEO
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
Remington Publications
BAM! TV
818.334.8826
http://beingaman.com
http://beingaman.tv
Publishers of "Being a Man in a Woman's World I & II"
Producers of "BAM! TV"

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks Dr. Neder.  Now that I have gained a little control of my emotions, I’m going to do my best to follow your advice.  It’s already been a month since my “needy” email and my “needy” attempt at correcting my email with a text.  Ideally, it would be optimal if she contacts me.  I will give it at least another month before I make any other attempt, probably with a generic email just to see how she is doing.  (If that would be best?)
She was only on match.com for a month.  She didn’t have much of a profile and had only one Pic.  I caught her at the end of her subscription when I first started talking to her.  She told me she was canceling because she had met a few people, they were nice, but that was about it and didn’t feel like she was “ready.”  Again, she did it because her mom pressured her to try to meet people.  She hasn’t really “gone out” since her divorce, (a year ago, I think) which took a great toll on her emotionally.  When she broke it off, she told me that I was the longest person she saw off that site and wasn’t ready for any relationship.  She said “I think we are looking for different things.”  I think she was just looking to “play the field,” saw that I was becoming emotionally attached, and put on the breaks.  I didn’t mean to spook her.  But yet, said she wanted to stay in touch, which she did initially.  Staying in touch keeps me “at arms reach.”  Of course, another guy is totally possible.
I will use time and distance as my ally, but what would make her want to contact me rather than her finding someone new all together, if things didn’t work out with whomever she is currently seeing?  Again, any words of wisdom here are appreciated.  Until then, I will go radio silent, continue dating other women and see what happens.  Thanks again for your expertise.
John  

Answer
Hey John!

Yes, a generic email would be fine as long as your communication with her doesn't continue via technology.

By the way, let me give you a little ammunition to work with here: when a woman tells you she's not "ready for a relationship" you should see a huge flag go up in your mind. That's a ridiculous sound bite! In fact, women DEFINE themselves by their relationships; just like guys do with their careers.

In fact, this was very likely "The Test" - something I discuss heavily in my book, "Being a Man in a Woman's World"; and I strongly recommend that you read it for far more than I can give you here. The bottom line is that you failed her Test and she punished you for it by dumping you.

Instead, you should have said, (and this is very situation-dependent by the way) "I hear ya, but it doesn't matter. You don't have to make that decision as this isn't black-and-white. We're together to make things work and that's all you need to focus on."

That little speech would have thwarted the breakup straight away; as long as you also threw some action behind it. Anyway, I'm getting off topic here. If you want to know more about Tests (because you're going to get them in EVERY relationship you're ever going to be in) consult the book.

As far as her contacting you; that's the issue. Perhaps she'll forget you failing her Test and will contact you. It happens about 30-40% of the time. While not great; those are decent odds. Of course, if she doesn't, you can still contact her in a month or so. Yes, it's based somewhat on whomever she is seeing right now too.

Best regards...

Dr. Dennis W. Neder
President/CEO
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
Remington Publications
BAM! TV
818.334.8826
http://beingaman.com
http://beingaman.tv
Publishers of "Being a Man in a Woman's World I & II"
Producers of "BAM! TV"