Expert: Dr. Dennis W. Neder - 4/4/2009

Question
Hey Dr., saw a previous post about the trend of "hangin out" verses "dating" and your confusion of where this is comming from. Well, i know where it's comming from, and im not sure i disagree with it, but you do raise some interesting points.
I have read a couple of other guys "systems", and on a few different guys "lists", and while certain things are universal in this attraction game, some things differ. One thing you seem to be differeing on is framing the meetings as "dates" or hanging out. Well, one of these "gurus" said to specifically NOT call the first initial meetings "dates". He feels that language and words have certain positive or negative triggers. Certain words like "Date" and "phone number" he says are bad. "Date" is bad, and to use the phrase "hang out" intead. The theory here that he says women love to wonder whether its a date or not. And also the word date kinda has traditional dating pressure stuff attached to it. Also, when asking a girl out who has a boyfriend it will engage less of her defenses if your just hanging out as friends. But once you get her in your presence, then you do all your attraction jive, etc. The words "phone number" he says are bad because thats what every other loser guy says and when you say it they will associate that with you. Makes sense. But, his one alternative for that is ask for her "contact information"...which i feel uneasy saying. Like its some kinda business transaction.
As far as the "hang out" thing goes, now everyone is using "hang out" and the same thing that happend to date has happend to "hang out". I would never use the word "date" but i might say "go out or something to that effect.
The girl i was out with today i used the phrase "We should connect this week". "Connect" is a word he also says to use and i feel semi-ok with it. Anyway, we had lunch, which i don't really like as a first date cuz ur across the person not kinda to the side like in a coffee date situation and you can't really initiate contact. But scheduling wise it was a lunch date cuz thats how it fit into are scedules to get at each other. So since i wasnt able to initiate contact during the lunch with "anchors", i didn't kiss her at the end. Not that i'd save it for the end in a coffee  or drink date, id do it in the middle somewhere so theres not that "end of date" awkward pressure for both.  Then i thought about whether i pussed out or not. Hmm..lol!  Any suggestions? She's a very busy girl so sometimes its hard to get her out in the way that i'd like, schedule wise, but because she's so busy i think she's got pent up horniness. We actually met cuz she crashed/rear ended me, and then got flirty, lol. (And no she's not trying to get out of an insurance claim cuz its already a done deal,lol!)

Answer
Hello Brandon!

Actually, my confusion wasn't so much about where it's coming from as why it's continuing. "Hanging out" (as we discussed on my show last Wednesday) is an absolutely-guaranteed way of becoming the friend - never anything more.

Yes, I know some of these so-called "experts" are recommending this, but the reality is that women are entirely wise to it. Let's be honest here - do you really think that women are so dumb as to not know what you want? Trust me, I talk to them every single day and the DO know what you want. All hanging out with them shows is that you're too much of a pussy to pull the trigger.

Using this clear language tells women:

1) That you know what direction you want to go.
2) That you're not afraid of going there
3) That you can also make her feel safe and secure (the only way she'll even be able to feel love - or loved)
4)

Brandon, seriously. These guys that think women are this stupid, are themselves stupid. I'd suggest you find someone else's "system". These are "triggers" from the standpoint that they set things up properly from the start. By trying to fool women with all this hanging out, you don't come off as strategic at all, you come off as scared, weak and lacking direction.

Now, I will say this: I don't use the term "date" either other than to describe what something is or unless she specifically asks. I'm not afraid of the word, it simply doesn't come up! On the other hand using the phrase "hang out" (as in, "Hey Sheila - let's 'hang out' on Saturday") DOES have clear and a specific connotation. The trouble is that it sends the completely wrong message and STILL doesn't fool anyone!

Come on here, give women at least a LITTLE credit!

Now, on to your questions:

First of all, I'm sorry you didn't kiss this girl. For there to be this much pressure, something isn't right. It's just a kiss! Who cares? I teach my students to use an "opening kiss" rather than waiting for the end, but that's another story entirely.

You're making an excuse for this girl being "busy". We're all busy and to be honest and without arrogance, I don't know anyone that is busier than I am. It's not about being busy, it's about what you do with that time that's important.

Let's say that you were Brad Pitt instead of who you are. Do you really think she'd be too busy to meet you whenever you had the time? I seriously doubt it. You see, this is about perceived value, NOT the time itself.

Unfortunately, this is now becoming a pattern of lack of value. You and she met for lunch (at her direction), you didn't kiss her, you didn't set up another date at the end of the last, etc. These are all low-value occurrences.

I'd suggest that you give her a few days of zero contact. Then, call her up (DO NOT text or email her!!!!) and say, "Clear up your [insert day of week]. I'm going to pick you up at 8 and we'll go out."

Notice, there's no hint of "hanging out" here, nor did I say "we'll go on a date..."? I'm trying to rebuild the value here by:

1) Being direct and telling her what I want
2) Not asking, begging or pleading with her
3) Assuming that she'll be thrilled to see me again

That's a very different stance than what you've had so far.

As well, I'd plan on opening the date with a soft, sensual (dry) kiss. This would lead to more throughout the date.

Best regards...

Dr. Dennis W. Neder
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