Expert: Dr. Dennis W. Neder - 5/26/2007

Question
Dr. Neder,

I AM NOT CROSS POSTING but the advice I got from another expert here just seems like something I can't do.  Please, please look at my question (and the answer answer) and tell me if it's OK to do what he said.  I'm desperate.

How r u. This is John 24 male. There is a girl i am atracted to at my workplace. But she is kind of dominant. She is my senior although she is a spoilt brat and rude. My question is while approaching such kind of women do i come stronger then she is or does this kind of women like to boss around so should i be a doormat. I am confused as this is the first time i am going to ask someone out and call it my luck i got the toughest one. Could you tell me how to win the heart of such women (although she seems heartless). Last night i was sharing a cab with these 2 women from work (1 i just talked abt) and i overheard this women saying that she is from my hometown and so i said "Excuse me r u from ..." n she said "YES" and i said "EVEN I AM FROM ..." then she just asked me where in that town do i live after which she told me herself where she lived After that there was a complete silence and she continued talking to her friend who by the way is also from my company. After she got off at her place she said bye to her friend but not me. Then i started talking to her friend (work related stuff) though she was nice. she even said bye and said that i could contact her anytime if i needed any help (for work related stuff). Both of them r my seniors but i want the first one. Now the only problem is i have never approached a women. I get tongue tied.  I really need to build confidence but i am sure with your help i will overcome my fears. Pls advise me how to approach this women.      

Regards

John  

answer:
think under the circumstance that your best bet with this particular woman is a direct, head-on, no-nonsense approach.  I say this for two reasons.  First, it is the best way to approach ALL women but most men are looking for some sort of “secret method” or some type of guarantee of success -- and in fact there are some ways to maximize your success with women -- but, if men will use it, the direct approach is best.  The second reason is because you have said that you get nervous around women (BTW, nervousness is completely normal when approaching women, especially a woman you are really interested in) so if you try any type “method” or technique, I’m afraid that you might get confused or tongue-tied etc. and blow it.  The direct approach is the simplest (for you and her) and most unequivocal and has the best chance of success and, if she does say “No”, it allows you to extricate yourself while maintaining your composure and dignity.  OK, what I’m going to describe now is a direct approach that will work for you.

Before I go on, I can tell you that experienced “womanizers” (if that’s the right word) would find this type of woman very easy to approach.  They would use her confidence (or bravado) as a tool to approach.  For example, they might say something like,

“How long have you worked here? (pause but don’t allow her to answer), you act like you own the place” (said in a friendly non-threatening sort of way).  Or, “Hey Karen, I’m going to the bank on my lunch hour” she’d look at you like, “Why are you telling me?” and you’d say, “The way you move around here, I thought you owned the place!”  Again, in a friendly, non-threatening way.  Just a couple of quick examples.  BUT, when using an approach like that, you have to think quick on your feet and adapt to contingencies etc.  

Back to the problem.  She is going to derive her attitude -- at least in part -- from your attitude.  For example, if you approach her and speak is a firm and clear voice (something that you can do), you will get the maximum communication from her but if you are the least bit mealy-mouthed, she’ll probably “bully” you or be dismissive.

BTW, in women, a tough exterior is very, very often  a facade for a fragile ego.  Not always of course ... but often.

So, what are the words you use?

Here’s how I’d do it:

“Karen (pause), I have a question for you” -- now stop talking until you have her full attention, then say, “Will you go out with me on Saturday night? (pause but don’t let her answer yet), I’d like to take you out to dinner ... I can pick you up at 8 p.m. ... just casual ... ”

Here’s the deal John.  If she wants to go out with you or if she’s neutral about you (more likely) she will say, “OK”.  If she’s just not interested, she’ll decline BUT if she does decline, it is unlikely that anything you could have said would change her mind.  In other words the direct approach will maximize your chances with this woman.

One thing you really want to do is push for an unequivocal answer -- you don’t want to have to go through this again -- you want to KNOW her feelings.  If she says she has plans then, say “OK, Sunday then”.  In other words, don’t leave the situation without knowing where you stand.  

John, I strongly encourage you to use this method because it’s simple, straight-forward, honest, and respectful, and it is something you can do without having to be “cool” or deal with a lot of contingencies or “what-if’s”.  

Lemme know.

Aaron  

Answer
Hello John!

I agree with a few things Aaron has said, but disagree with quite a bit.

I'm writing about an issue I call the "power gradient" in my new book. This is a power-differential between two people and every interaction has it. You're either the boss or the employee, you're either the parent or the child, you're either the teacher or the student, etc. This is somewhat complicated and far beyond what I can fully explain via email, but I'll try to give you a picture of it and how to use it to your benefit.

Women work almost exclusively from this power model and you need to understand it in order to use it as an aide not only with this woman, but with every woman you ever approach. Here's the rule: women want to "date up". That means, that they want to be with a guy that is more powerful than they are. Now, before you let that dissuade you from this woman (simply because she's your superior), hold on. You don't know what "power" means to her!

Women rate power in many different ways - both direct and indirect. The amount of money you earn is an obvious power indication, but it's very coarse. Other ways to rate power are based on your physical size, your attitude and even your "relative power" in areas outside of work - sports, family, friends, hobbies, etc. Women can even transfer power from someone else to you if you somehow remind them of that person!

Another thing you need to understand is that "powerful women" are a real gem in many ways; not the least of which is that they tend to be even more submissive with men they deem as more powerful than less-powerful women. Her attitude toward you is likely a sort of challenge - what I call a "Mini-Test" in my second book. If you call her on these Mini-Tests, you instantly establish a rule of power between you.

For instance, when she was leaving the cab, you should have said, "Uh - excuse me! Am I invisible here?" She'd likely have laughed, but would have then acquiesced to your remark by saying goodbye to you too. Interestingly, this would have immediately established you as someone of power and importance - and she would have naturally reacted to it!

What you'll find is that once you establish that power-base between you and she, she's going to completely change her attitude toward you. Now, if you act weak and inferior to her, she's going to get stronger and likely even disrespectful. It's not specifically that she's a jackass (although, she may be), it's just a reaction many powerful women have to weak men. In fact, this is actually pre-wired into women.

You can establish the power-base in a number of ways. One is to be cocky (as in having attitude) around her. Don't let her over-power you and start treating her like your bratty little sister! Interestingly, all women SAY they hate this, but in fact, almost every single woman responds positively to it!

Another tool you have is expectation. If you act like you EXPECT her to do what you ask, you also change the power gradient between you. For this reason, you must NOT "ask" her for a date - you have to tell her you want to go out with her, but only do this after you've established the power-base.

When she starts being friendly toward you, you'll know you've made it. That's when you want to say "Ok, clear Saturday night, I'm picking you up at 8. Here, write your number down on this paper..." Notice how I didn't say, "Do you want to go out sometime?" or "Would you like to do [whatever]?" I TOLD her what I wanted her to do. This is a critical difference.

John, I understand that this doesn't seem natural. Your initial reactions are to continue to test the waters until she gives you enough signs that you feel confident in moving in. Frankly, this rarely works with average or even weak women, but will NEVER work with a powerful one. You need to man up here and take charge if you want any play with this woman.

Ultimately however, you need to learn basic approach skills. They're not particularly complicated, but they are very specific. I suggest you check out my website for a ton of information on this.

Best regards...

Dr. Dennis W. Neder
President
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Remington Publications
818.334.8826
www.beingaman.com
Publishers of "Being a Man in a Woman's World I & II"