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Auto Theft Prevention/2002 Ford Explorer won't start
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Question
The other day my Ford Explorer just would start, it starts to crank, but will never turn over. I took it to a repair shop and they stated that my security system had locked out and that I needed to send it to the dealership. The dealership now has it and they are telling me it has a bad ground and that the fuel pump needs to be replaced because it is not getting any power to it. The power locks will also not work which as I have read on here has been linked to the security system shutting down, but the dealership is telling me it is fine. I called the previous repair shop and the mechanic told me he had checked the fuel pump manually and that with an alternate power source it ran fine. The dealership advised me that if one of the cells in my battery were bad that they would not be able to do a reset on the security system so I have already paid for a new battery and had one of the battery connectors replaced and have authorized them to fix what they have determined as the bad ground. I am getting really frustrated because I know if that does not work they are going to want to change the fuel pump and the other mechanic assures me that it is not the problem. Help!
Hi Melanie,
Please understand, you are speaking of two different animals here. One is the Securilock (chip in key) and it also appears on the locks that you are speaking of the factory alarm. These are two seperate issues.
You mechanic seems to know what he is talking about in the respect of the fuel pump being OK. If he used an alternate power source, and the fuel pump functions, its good and there is a problem in the circuit.
The first thing I would check would be the fuel pump relay located under the hood on the driver's side inner fender. I don't remember the number relay for the fuel pump. It is either 4 or 5, but removal of the cover will tell you.
As for resetting the Securilock for the battery having a bad cell,I have never heard of it. Maybe if the battery was dead for a period of time, but your description has not led me to believe this.
I would be interested to know where this bad ground is. If the ground was bad in the fuel pump, the other mechanic would not have hgotten the vehicle to run bu using an alternate power source.
Here is your problem in my opinion about taking your car to a dealership. They are instructed to change parts until the problem is fixed. The techs are not trained to read schematics and diagnose anymore. If you looked at Ford's wiring and component diagnoses, it is stated in their manuals to plug in the computer scanner and use flow charts. In other words, a code may come up. The book will state change this part, if it doesn't work change the next. All this at the customer's expense.
People are commonly thinking "I must go to the dealer to get my car fixed because they are the only ones that can repair my car." Years ago, I would have agreed, but it has been my experience that in most cases, you are better off going to a mechanic that has learned by experience and not that of changing parts until the problem is fixed.
If your mechanic had the vehicle running by jumping power for the fuel pump, the fuel pump is not bad. If Ford wants to guaranty that replacement of the fuel pump will fix the problem in writing, let them change it. If after the fuel pump is changed and the vehicle will not run, then let them pay for any additional repairs.
I saw this in my brother's Lincoln. First they told him it was a fuel pump. $400 later, the car still did not run. Then they replaced the key, then the transciever for the securilock. Then they allegedly repaired grounds and this cost another $600. Car still did not run for $1,000. He was so disgusted, he told them to change the computer for another $400. Guess what? The car now ran. I see this so much, it sickens me. Did they give him his $1,000 back? No!
It is my opinion that Ford keeps their techs dumbed down. If you ask any Ford tech, they will tell you it is impossible to defeat the Securilock (PATS-chip in key).
I read a schwematic and found the backdoor to the system like a thief would do. I defeated the system with one wire on video for a judge on 10/10/2000! My process was tried by other forensic examiners and they videotaped the vehicles they bypassed. The consensus was, my process to defeat this junk was valid! Yet, if you ask any Ford tech right now, he will tell you the vehicle is "unstealable." Why? Because that is what Ford tells the techs.
Worse yet, if you car is stolen, the insurance company won't pay the claim and even tries to implicate the insured because the car is supposedly "unstealable."
You problem appears to have nothing to do with the transponder system. If this was a transponder system problem that needs to be reset as per Ford, bypassing the fuel pump with an alternate power source would not work either and the engine would not run.
Its frustrating for me as well because in my opinion, the dealer has no clue as to what they are talking about.
The way the Securilock works is that if the correctly programmed key is not read by the computer, the fuel pump shuts down, but so does the injector pulse. Even if the fuel pump is jumped and there is a problem in the transponder system, the engine will not run!
You need to decide if you want to have the other mechanic re-evaluate the problem and as I said, it could be as simple as a bad relay (cheap fix). I don't think I would feel comfortable with Ford's diagnoses. Granted, I am not looking at the car, but your first mechanic makes more sense than what you are hearing from Ford. Tell them to put it in writing that they will guaranty that the fuel pump replacement will fix the problem. If not, any additional is on them.
If you want some fun and they might not like being made to look ignorant, ask them if they checked everything in circuit 361 as it relates to the security.
Just so you know what circuit 361 is, it feeds everything (all components)under the hood and is controlled by the Securilock anti-theft transponder system on your 2002 Ford Explorer.
It would not surprise me if they had no clue. If they did though, they would know you are not just a dumb woman and you must know what you are talking about.
Good luck!
Rob
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Answers by Expert:
Rob Painter, ASE, CFL, CFEI
Expertise
My background in auto theft is extensive. I have been directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft recovered vehicles. I also do insurance investigation as to how a vehicle was last operated. My clients are insurance companies and attorneys. Was featured in the A & E auto theft documentary "Stealing Wheels" July 26, 2000. Has consulted with Daimler Chrysler steering column engineers to make their steering columns harder to defeat. Holds patent # 6,039,140 for 8 different variations to protect air bags from theft.
Experience
ROB PAINTER, ASE, CFL, CFEI Forensic Vehicle Component Analyst Diplomate, Board Certified Forensic Examiner ASE Certified Auto, Collision, Med/Hvy/Duty Truck Technician Certified Forensic Locksmith Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator Certified Vehicle Fire Investigator Certified Forensic Auto Theft Examiner Certified Auto Theft and Fraud Expert http://www.autotheftexpert.com Email-rpainter@wi.rr.com P.O. Box 190 Big Bend, WI 53103 Phone (414) 698-9696 Fax (262) 662-1352 As per federal court rules of evidence (702) (Daubert) my testimony has qualified me as: Auto Theft and Fraud Expert Forensic Vehicle Analyst Fire Origin and Cause Expert In the trial transcript of Holiday vs Progressive Insurance Company (March 12, 2002?Eugene, Oregon) with Holiday being my client-named ?the expert for experts.? BUSINESS EXPERIENCE Founder of the ?Forensic Institute of Auto Theft Analysis? (January 2002). This is the training school that will set the standards in determining the last operation of a reported stolen vehicle-burned or unburned. Much of my testing and procedures have been accepted as the guide for the forensic community. 1986 opened Auto Recovery Specialists Inc., providing exclusive repair of theft recovered and vandalized vehicles. The initial concept of the business was to return vehicles to their original shape before the theft, vandalism or fire. In 1987 bought the rights to the theft deterrent known as the ?Chicago Collar?. Duties include complete component replacement: dash, stereo system, interior, locks and coding, rebuilding steering columns, repairing and installing vehicle security system components (factory and after market), engine components, body repair, glass replacement, repair and service of air conditioning components, brake and suspension repair, and replacement, wiring harnesses etc. to return vehicle to pre-theft condition Complete reconstruction. During the past 17 years directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft-recovered and fire damaged Personally examined and rebuilt thousands of steering columns on both import and domestic vehicles Internationally acknowledged as expert in auto theft including court, consulting with insurance companies, attorneys and law enforcement. Consultant on steering columns, locks, stereo systems and vehicle security for Special Investigation Units for many large insurance carriers during the past eight years. Consulting services include but not limited to: How a vehicle was last operated (with or without keys in burned or unburned vehicles), Origin and Cause of vehicle fires, and vehicle defects. Provides services as a consultant and researcher to attorneys and insurance companies, and private industry throughout the US in cases related to vehicles. Has worked with crime prevention officers throughout the US establishing training programs designed to protect the public from becoming victims of auto theft. PATENT: 3/21/00 issued patent# 6,039,140 for 8 different variations of airbag anti-theft devices. PUBLICATIONS Currently authors articles and test reports on an ongoing basis for SIUs and the forensic/vehicle fire industry. Published author: (1,297 slide training course) Auto Theft/ Fraud Training Course) ?The Modern Forensic Approach to Auto Theft Investigation.? (January, 2001) Author: ?Variables to Be Considered In Vehicle Fire Investigation after Suppression.? (Insurance publication-November 2001) Author: ?Ford Magnesium Steering Columns and the Results to Ignition Components after a Fire?. Article for peer review from the fire and forensic community. (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM VATS.? (Article) (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM PASSLOCK TM? (Article) (November 2001) Author:? Auto Theft Investigation: Hollywood vs. Reality? (Article) (February 2001) For the John Cooke Fraud Report. Published author: (Manual) ?Forensic Vehicle Fire/ Arson and Auto Theft Investigation? (October 2000) Published author: (Article) ?Petty Claims? for the John Cooke Fraud Report (October, 1998) Published author (Manual) ?AUTO THEFT: LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN!? (1998) (Previously distributed by Barnes & Nobel) Co-authored the investigation manual, ?Surreptitious Entry & Auto Theft & Burn & the Investigator.? (1999) Authored test questions on the subject of steering columns and vehicle security for CFL designation to be given by the International Association of Investigative Locksmiths. January, 2000 Published author: (Manual) ?Saginaw Steering Columns-What Has Not Been Told? Training manual for fire investigators. (March 2000) Published (Article) ?Beyond The Lock? (May 2000) Published Author: (Article) Fraud Defense Network-August, 2000 Edition-?Melting Steering Column Tests.? http://www.fraudreport.com/index.cfm?month=08&year=2000 Published author: (Test Report) ?Burned Toyota Steering Column Testing to Determine How Last Operated?. Tool marks and procedures. (December 1999) Currently at the FBI Crime Lab in Washington DC and the US Army Crime Lab in Atlanta, GA for peer review. ACCOMPLISHMENTS Defeated the ?unstealable? Ford Securilock transponder system for a court case 10/10/00. They said it could not be done! Primary designer of a state of the art ?bait? car for a police department to catch car thieves. Worked with The National Highway Safety Transportation Administration and discovered a potential fire hazard on a vehicle and determined origin and cause of under hood fires on this type of vehicle. Featured as ?Auto Theft Expert? in the A & E auto theft documentary ?Stealing Wheels? that aired July 26, 2000. Contacted by Sears and Edelman Marketing to be a national spokesman for an anti theft device for vehicles. (November 1999) Invited to provide evaluation and consulting to steering column engineers at Daimler Chrysler Corporation in Auburn Hills, MI (10/19/99-10/22/99). The purpose of this project was to demonstrate how steering column locking mechanisms could be defeated without the use of a key and how to reinforce the columns against theft. Court Qualified as an Auto Theft Expert and my videos of defeating columns were also accepted by a Cleveland, Ohio Court in October 1999 as a valid piece of evidence. Contacted by Disney Touchstone Pictures for technical assistance in making the movie ?Gone in 60 Seconds? (March 1999) CONSULTANT FOR FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ? Former contributor for The Insurance News Network (Auto theft and prevention) includes heading a forum for the public on how to protect their vehicles for 3+ years. ? Former editor and consultant for the public on matters involving auto theft and prevention 2000-2001 on the web at http://www.autotheft_forum.com. ? The Insurance Career Center (Auto theft and fraud). ? National Association of Investigative Specialists (Auto theft and fraud) ? Expert Find (Auto theft and fraud} TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE ? ASE (National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence) Certified in Auto: brakes, steering and suspension, engine repair, manual drive train and axles, air conditioning. Med/Heavy duty truck: gasoline engine repair, electrical/electronic components. Collision: elec.....
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