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Auto Theft Prevention/Security of a remoteless alarm disable function

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Expert: - 1/14/2009


Question
I just read your answer titled "Preventing auto break-in".  I have a 2004 Honda Civic with a computer chip key.  I just had after market alarm with starter disable installed.  

The valet button is in plain sight next to the cigarette lighter.  There is a feature to disable the alarm if you happen to lose your remote control.  You open the door with your key as usual and the alarm will go off.  Then you insert the key into the ignition, turn it to Run, and press the valet button once.

I asked the alarm installer about this because it was so easy.  He said that it wasn't a vulnerability because a thief would need a copy of the electronic key to disable the alarm with this method, and copies are impossible for a thief to get since you have to take the car to the dealer to get one.

However, I've begun to think that if the electronic key was such a complete deterrent, why do I need a starter disable to begin with?  Is the alarm installer right?   From reading your prior answer I have a very uneasy feeling about this, but if you could elaborate about this specific situation I would appreciate it.

A second question please... My daughter bought an Autolock brake pedal lock.  It has a barrel lock.  I've found that a pro thief can buy an $80 device on the Internet that will enable him to open a barrel lock in seconds.  However, it seems that he might not be able to use the device on the Autolock because of close quarters around the lock (it's right next to the sliding bar). How vulnerable is the Autolock barrel lock in actual practice?  The Autolock also is available with a dimple lock, would that be significantly better?

Thanks for your time.


Answer
Hi Joe,

I am not one for name calling normally, but your installer is an IDIOT and proves the point I was trying to make that these goofs installing alarms have not a clue as to auto theft methods.

First of all, your Honda has a brake over ride code for the transponder. The code can be obtained by giving the VIN to a dealer.

To get the ignition in the ON position takes about 10-15 seconds with a screwdriver and hammer. The transponder is now over ridden with the brake code and is history in less than 60 seconds!

As for making a transponder key with the correct electronic code, how many keys do you want? This key can be cloned in 9 seconds!!! If the transceiver (antenna) for the transponder is not broken when knocking the lock out, the screwdriver takes the place of the key and lock and if the coded not cut key is placed on the screwdriver blade, the engine will start.

The caveat for cloning is that someone has possession of your key for less than a minute. Check out "Quick code" on the web. $200 gives one the capability of making cloned keys for over a hundred makes and models.

The transponder can fail and be bypassed as well.

If your car is stolen though chances are real good that your claim would be denied because according to the insurance company and their experts who think like your alarm installer the car is unstealable.

The answer from your installer bothers me too because I would bet the alarm is just slapped under the dash with no concealment.

Go on the web and search for the article "pinch my ride."

There is so much crap out there that does not work, but sounds like a good idea. Window etching a joke! The Club and like kind products would cost you a steering wheel because the thief would cut it in seconds. The Stargard starter kill the dealer paid $8 installed and sold for up to $2,000 and could be bypassed by putting a quarter across all the connections, the autolok is in my opinion is a joke, the list goes on and on.

I was directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft recoveries--what do I know compared to this alarm installer?

Unfortunately, the consumer has no way to judge if the system is installed right or wrong (unless stolen) and is at the installer's mercy!

Maybe I should write a manual on alarm installation from my perspective. The only problem is that the consumer is cost concious and in these cases cheap is not always better.

The alarm is only as good as the install.

In the A&E documentary "Stealing wheels" I demonstrated testing of the "DISCLOK" which was very effective, but a lot of work to put on take off and akward, but it did work.

Would I buy any of these theft devices? No. I have a pager and the thief will get acquainted with my buddies Mr. Colt or my .410 revolver known as the "JUDGE." I don't recommend that to anyone. It is just how I would address the situation.

My Ford truck is the only vehicle with a transponder and I defeated that system for a judge just like a thief would do with one wire on video! That's right, about 20 dealer mechanics told me "Impossible!" Process was performed by others and found to be valid.

I think like a thief. Not a locksmith, not most of the alarm installers.

When the Chrysler steering column engineers had me defeat their steering columns, I defeated all of their columns with no damage to the ignition lock keyway.

If you write me a private email at robo14@aol.com after you look under your dash, I may be able to give you some pointers on how the alarm should be installed. Most that I see are real bad and offer no security.

As for your daughters car, install a hidden starter disable switch. It is the best and cheapest security you can get.

Good luck!

Rob

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Rob Painter, ASE, CFL, CFEI

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My background in auto theft is extensive. I have been directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft recovered vehicles. I also do insurance investigation as to how a vehicle was last operated. My clients are insurance companies and attorneys. Was featured in the A & E auto theft documentary "Stealing Wheels" July 26, 2000. Has consulted with Daimler Chrysler steering column engineers to make their steering columns harder to defeat. Holds patent # 6,039,140 for 8 different variations to protect air bags from theft.

Experience

ROB PAINTER, ASE, CFL, CFEI Forensic Vehicle Component Analyst Diplomate, Board Certified Forensic Examiner ASE Certified Auto, Collision, Med/Hvy/Duty Truck Technician Certified Forensic Locksmith Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator Certified Vehicle Fire Investigator Certified Forensic Auto Theft Examiner Certified Auto Theft and Fraud Expert http://www.autotheftexpert.com Email-rpainter@wi.rr.com P.O. Box 190 Big Bend, WI 53103 Phone (414) 698-9696 Fax (262) 662-1352 As per federal court rules of evidence (702) (Daubert) my testimony has qualified me as: Auto Theft and Fraud Expert Forensic Vehicle Analyst Fire Origin and Cause Expert In the trial transcript of Holiday vs Progressive Insurance Company (March 12, 2002?Eugene, Oregon) with Holiday being my client-named ?the expert for experts.? BUSINESS EXPERIENCE Founder of the ?Forensic Institute of Auto Theft Analysis? (January 2002). This is the training school that will set the standards in determining the last operation of a reported stolen vehicle-burned or unburned. Much of my testing and procedures have been accepted as the guide for the forensic community. 1986 opened Auto Recovery Specialists Inc., providing exclusive repair of theft recovered and vandalized vehicles. The initial concept of the business was to return vehicles to their original shape before the theft, vandalism or fire. In 1987 bought the rights to the theft deterrent known as the ?Chicago Collar?. Duties include complete component replacement: dash, stereo system, interior, locks and coding, rebuilding steering columns, repairing and installing vehicle security system components (factory and after market), engine components, body repair, glass replacement, repair and service of air conditioning components, brake and suspension repair, and replacement, wiring harnesses etc. to return vehicle to pre-theft condition Complete reconstruction. During the past 17 years directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft-recovered and fire damaged Personally examined and rebuilt thousands of steering columns on both import and domestic vehicles Internationally acknowledged as expert in auto theft including court, consulting with insurance companies, attorneys and law enforcement. Consultant on steering columns, locks, stereo systems and vehicle security for Special Investigation Units for many large insurance carriers during the past eight years. Consulting services include but not limited to: How a vehicle was last operated (with or without keys in burned or unburned vehicles), Origin and Cause of vehicle fires, and vehicle defects. Provides services as a consultant and researcher to attorneys and insurance companies, and private industry throughout the US in cases related to vehicles. Has worked with crime prevention officers throughout the US establishing training programs designed to protect the public from becoming victims of auto theft. PATENT: 3/21/00 issued patent# 6,039,140 for 8 different variations of airbag anti-theft devices. PUBLICATIONS Currently authors articles and test reports on an ongoing basis for SIUs and the forensic/vehicle fire industry. Published author: (1,297 slide training course) Auto Theft/ Fraud Training Course) ?The Modern Forensic Approach to Auto Theft Investigation.? (January, 2001) Author: ?Variables to Be Considered In Vehicle Fire Investigation after Suppression.? (Insurance publication-November 2001) Author: ?Ford Magnesium Steering Columns and the Results to Ignition Components after a Fire?. Article for peer review from the fire and forensic community. (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM VATS.? (Article) (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM PASSLOCK TM? (Article) (November 2001) Author:? Auto Theft Investigation: Hollywood vs. Reality? (Article) (February 2001) For the John Cooke Fraud Report. Published author: (Manual) ?Forensic Vehicle Fire/ Arson and Auto Theft Investigation? (October 2000) Published author: (Article) ?Petty Claims? for the John Cooke Fraud Report (October, 1998) Published author (Manual) ?AUTO THEFT: LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN!? (1998) (Previously distributed by Barnes & Nobel) Co-authored the investigation manual, ?Surreptitious Entry & Auto Theft & Burn & the Investigator.? (1999) Authored test questions on the subject of steering columns and vehicle security for CFL designation to be given by the International Association of Investigative Locksmiths. January, 2000 Published author: (Manual) ?Saginaw Steering Columns-What Has Not Been Told? Training manual for fire investigators. (March 2000) Published (Article) ?Beyond The Lock? (May 2000) Published Author: (Article) Fraud Defense Network-August, 2000 Edition-?Melting Steering Column Tests.? http://www.fraudreport.com/index.cfm?month=08&year=2000 Published author: (Test Report) ?Burned Toyota Steering Column Testing to Determine How Last Operated?. Tool marks and procedures. (December 1999) Currently at the FBI Crime Lab in Washington DC and the US Army Crime Lab in Atlanta, GA for peer review. ACCOMPLISHMENTS Defeated the ?unstealable? Ford Securilock transponder system for a court case 10/10/00. They said it could not be done! Primary designer of a state of the art ?bait? car for a police department to catch car thieves. Worked with The National Highway Safety Transportation Administration and discovered a potential fire hazard on a vehicle and determined origin and cause of under hood fires on this type of vehicle. Featured as ?Auto Theft Expert? in the A & E auto theft documentary ?Stealing Wheels? that aired July 26, 2000. Contacted by Sears and Edelman Marketing to be a national spokesman for an anti theft device for vehicles. (November 1999) Invited to provide evaluation and consulting to steering column engineers at Daimler Chrysler Corporation in Auburn Hills, MI (10/19/99-10/22/99). The purpose of this project was to demonstrate how steering column locking mechanisms could be defeated without the use of a key and how to reinforce the columns against theft. Court Qualified as an Auto Theft Expert and my videos of defeating columns were also accepted by a Cleveland, Ohio Court in October 1999 as a valid piece of evidence. Contacted by Disney Touchstone Pictures for technical assistance in making the movie ?Gone in 60 Seconds? (March 1999) CONSULTANT FOR FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ? Former contributor for The Insurance News Network (Auto theft and prevention) includes heading a forum for the public on how to protect their vehicles for 3+ years. ? Former editor and consultant for the public on matters involving auto theft and prevention 2000-2001 on the web at http://www.autotheft_forum.com. ? The Insurance Career Center (Auto theft and fraud). ? National Association of Investigative Specialists (Auto theft and fraud) ? Expert Find (Auto theft and fraud} TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE ? ASE (National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence) Certified in Auto: brakes, steering and suspension, engine repair, manual drive train and axles, air conditioning. Med/Heavy duty truck: gasoline engine repair, electrical/electronic components. Collision: elec.....

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