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Auto Theft Prevention/1996 pontiac gram am won`t say started
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Question
QUESTION: when i start my car it will run for a few seconds and shut down
ANSWER: Hi,
Your Grand Am is equipped with the so-called anti-theft system passlock.
By design, if the computer does not see the rotation of the ignition lock, the engine will crank, but will not start. The fact that the engine starts and runs a few seconds before stalling points to a whole host of potential problems, all of which are not related to the PASSLOCK system. It could be fuel, it could be spark, it could be timing. In other words, the problem could be caused by anything.
The only option you can do is have the car towed to a service center for diagnoses and repair. The vehicle can be scanned for trouble codes which may detect the problem.
Since the early 80's many vehicles were computer controlled. These cars can not be repaired any longer by the shade tree mechanic. The problem is that one symptom may be the same for a hundred different defects.
It is very easy to chase good money after bad by guessing and just parts changing on what we think is the problem.
In fact, if you were to look at some of the manufacturer's diagnostic flow charts in their service manuals, parts changing is promoted until something fixes the problem. I am sure this inspires confidence in the repair. Of course I am being sarcastic here.
Unfortunately these days, there are so many options just on one circuit, these vehicles are not as easy to repair.
Many have problems with their 10-20 year old alarm systems and think it is easy just to bypass them. Such is not the case and it will be seen more and more often where a vehicle is rendered junk only because the factory installed alarm cannot be successfully disabled.
Anti-theft systems are frequently blamed, only because very few understand how they work. First, there is no such thing as an anti-theft system for a vehicle. Not one of these prevents theft, which leaves the term fraudulent on the part of whoever is promoting it.
Secondly, the misinformation about how these systems work is rampant. Every single one of them both factory and after market works off of the start circuit. The engine may or may not crank. The only system I am aware of that will run for up to 6 seconds without the correct transponder key, is the Chrysler SKIM (Sentry Key Immobilizer Module). Once the engine is running, it stays running and unlike cops will tell you, the engine is not designed to stall once running. I have heard so many times in which the cop will say that the anti-theft system stalled the engine miles down the road. Due to liability issues, this will not happen. People do listen to the all-knowing badge however, even if the information spewed is incorrect. In fact, very few cops even have a clue as to the mechanics or the electronics involved that are employed in order to steal a vehicle. Their expertise is in enforcing the laws and not that of vehicles.
As I stated in the begining though as it relates to the running of your engine, it does not appear to be a problem with the PASSLOCK system and on hands on diagnoses is required.
Good Luck!
Rob
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: I have had a diaginosis test run and am being told that is the problem.what is the least expensive fix for the passlock system?
Hello,
If you had a diagnoses by the use of a tech II scanner, you should have a trouble code telling you what is wrong with the PASS LOCK if that is the problem as you say.
The speedometer assembly, the computer and the ignition lock and housing are all tied together. This was the first full year of the use of PASSLOCK.
In order for anyone to tell you what is wrong and what to do to correct, you have to be able to determine what the code the diagnostic test run determined.
You ask what the least expensive repair is. That is an open ended question and depends on what is wrong. I have worked with this system since it's inception with many different problems. None of these PASSLOCK problems caused the engine to stall once the engine was running.
The way this system is designed is for only one method of theft. If the ignition lock is forced from it's housing, the magnetic field sensing the rotation of the ignition lock is broken and the engine will crank, but will not start.
When the ignition lock rotates and completes the rotation through the magnetic field, it is sensed through a hall effect switch and sent to the vehicle's computer allowing the engine to start as well as supply fuel injector pulse.
Now, if you want to reset the system, you can turn the ignition on for 10 minutes. Turn off, turn on for 10 minutes more, turn off and turn on for 10 more minutes. This takes 30 minutes. Many people just do 10-15 minutes and find no results.
This system is in my opinion junk and offers very little theft protection. Many different keys will operate this lock. In fact, worn enough, you don't even need a key to rotate the ignition lock. Yet, when stolen and a theft claim is placed with the insurance company some self proclaimed expert locksmith will state because there is no damage to the lock, the car was stolen with the insureds key. Claim gets denied and I have defended many innocent insureds in criminal court because of the PASSLOCK system.
All this goes back to ignorrance on the part of insurance companies and the expert locksmiths.
As I stated before, your problem does not sound like it is a PASSLOCK problem because the engine starts. You have not given me any diagnostic codes to confirm it is a PASSLOCK problem, but just in case I explained how you can reset the system.
Good Luck!
Rob
Related Articles
Answers by Expert:
Rob Painter, ASE, CFL, CFEI
Expertise
My background in auto theft is extensive. I have been directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft recovered vehicles. I also do insurance investigation as to how a vehicle was last operated. My clients are insurance companies and attorneys. Was featured in the A & E auto theft documentary "Stealing Wheels" July 26, 2000. Has consulted with Daimler Chrysler steering column engineers to make their steering columns harder to defeat. Holds patent # 6,039,140 for 8 different variations to protect air bags from theft.
Experience
ROB PAINTER, ASE, CFL, CFEI Forensic Vehicle Component Analyst Diplomate, Board Certified Forensic Examiner ASE Certified Auto, Collision, Med/Hvy/Duty Truck Technician Certified Forensic Locksmith Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator Certified Vehicle Fire Investigator Certified Forensic Auto Theft Examiner Certified Auto Theft and Fraud Expert http://www.autotheftexpert.com Email-rpainter@wi.rr.com P.O. Box 190 Big Bend, WI 53103 Phone (414) 698-9696 Fax (262) 662-1352 As per federal court rules of evidence (702) (Daubert) my testimony has qualified me as: Auto Theft and Fraud Expert Forensic Vehicle Analyst Fire Origin and Cause Expert In the trial transcript of Holiday vs Progressive Insurance Company (March 12, 2002?Eugene, Oregon) with Holiday being my client-named ?the expert for experts.? BUSINESS EXPERIENCE Founder of the ?Forensic Institute of Auto Theft Analysis? (January 2002). This is the training school that will set the standards in determining the last operation of a reported stolen vehicle-burned or unburned. Much of my testing and procedures have been accepted as the guide for the forensic community. 1986 opened Auto Recovery Specialists Inc., providing exclusive repair of theft recovered and vandalized vehicles. The initial concept of the business was to return vehicles to their original shape before the theft, vandalism or fire. In 1987 bought the rights to the theft deterrent known as the ?Chicago Collar?. Duties include complete component replacement: dash, stereo system, interior, locks and coding, rebuilding steering columns, repairing and installing vehicle security system components (factory and after market), engine components, body repair, glass replacement, repair and service of air conditioning components, brake and suspension repair, and replacement, wiring harnesses etc. to return vehicle to pre-theft condition Complete reconstruction. During the past 17 years directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft-recovered and fire damaged Personally examined and rebuilt thousands of steering columns on both import and domestic vehicles Internationally acknowledged as expert in auto theft including court, consulting with insurance companies, attorneys and law enforcement. Consultant on steering columns, locks, stereo systems and vehicle security for Special Investigation Units for many large insurance carriers during the past eight years. Consulting services include but not limited to: How a vehicle was last operated (with or without keys in burned or unburned vehicles), Origin and Cause of vehicle fires, and vehicle defects. Provides services as a consultant and researcher to attorneys and insurance companies, and private industry throughout the US in cases related to vehicles. Has worked with crime prevention officers throughout the US establishing training programs designed to protect the public from becoming victims of auto theft. PATENT: 3/21/00 issued patent# 6,039,140 for 8 different variations of airbag anti-theft devices. PUBLICATIONS Currently authors articles and test reports on an ongoing basis for SIUs and the forensic/vehicle fire industry. Published author: (1,297 slide training course) Auto Theft/ Fraud Training Course) ?The Modern Forensic Approach to Auto Theft Investigation.? (January, 2001) Author: ?Variables to Be Considered In Vehicle Fire Investigation after Suppression.? (Insurance publication-November 2001) Author: ?Ford Magnesium Steering Columns and the Results to Ignition Components after a Fire?. Article for peer review from the fire and forensic community. (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM VATS.? (Article) (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM PASSLOCK TM? (Article) (November 2001) Author:? Auto Theft Investigation: Hollywood vs. Reality? (Article) (February 2001) For the John Cooke Fraud Report. Published author: (Manual) ?Forensic Vehicle Fire/ Arson and Auto Theft Investigation? (October 2000) Published author: (Article) ?Petty Claims? for the John Cooke Fraud Report (October, 1998) Published author (Manual) ?AUTO THEFT: LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN!? (1998) (Previously distributed by Barnes & Nobel) Co-authored the investigation manual, ?Surreptitious Entry & Auto Theft & Burn & the Investigator.? (1999) Authored test questions on the subject of steering columns and vehicle security for CFL designation to be given by the International Association of Investigative Locksmiths. January, 2000 Published author: (Manual) ?Saginaw Steering Columns-What Has Not Been Told? Training manual for fire investigators. (March 2000) Published (Article) ?Beyond The Lock? (May 2000) Published Author: (Article) Fraud Defense Network-August, 2000 Edition-?Melting Steering Column Tests.? http://www.fraudreport.com/index.cfm?month=08&year=2000 Published author: (Test Report) ?Burned Toyota Steering Column Testing to Determine How Last Operated?. Tool marks and procedures. (December 1999) Currently at the FBI Crime Lab in Washington DC and the US Army Crime Lab in Atlanta, GA for peer review. ACCOMPLISHMENTS Defeated the ?unstealable? Ford Securilock transponder system for a court case 10/10/00. They said it could not be done! Primary designer of a state of the art ?bait? car for a police department to catch car thieves. Worked with The National Highway Safety Transportation Administration and discovered a potential fire hazard on a vehicle and determined origin and cause of under hood fires on this type of vehicle. Featured as ?Auto Theft Expert? in the A & E auto theft documentary ?Stealing Wheels? that aired July 26, 2000. Contacted by Sears and Edelman Marketing to be a national spokesman for an anti theft device for vehicles. (November 1999) Invited to provide evaluation and consulting to steering column engineers at Daimler Chrysler Corporation in Auburn Hills, MI (10/19/99-10/22/99). The purpose of this project was to demonstrate how steering column locking mechanisms could be defeated without the use of a key and how to reinforce the columns against theft. Court Qualified as an Auto Theft Expert and my videos of defeating columns were also accepted by a Cleveland, Ohio Court in October 1999 as a valid piece of evidence. Contacted by Disney Touchstone Pictures for technical assistance in making the movie ?Gone in 60 Seconds? (March 1999) CONSULTANT FOR FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ? Former contributor for The Insurance News Network (Auto theft and prevention) includes heading a forum for the public on how to protect their vehicles for 3+ years. ? Former editor and consultant for the public on matters involving auto theft and prevention 2000-2001 on the web at http://www.autotheft_forum.com. ? The Insurance Career Center (Auto theft and fraud). ? National Association of Investigative Specialists (Auto theft and fraud) ? Expert Find (Auto theft and fraud} TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE ? ASE (National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence) Certified in Auto: brakes, steering and suspension, engine repair, manual drive train and axles, air conditioning. Med/Heavy duty truck: gasoline engine repair, electrical/electronic components. Collision: elec.....
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