Expert: Rob Painter, ASE, CFL, CFEI - 11/24/2010

Question
I have a 2003 Chevy Malibu LS w/ 48,000 miles on it.  It has been a dream of a car, except for a ticklish little problem at one time, w/ the accelerator sticking; fortunately, it didn't get REAL bad until I got down from the mountains in western NC, where I had it fixed, immediately.

But then this past year, I had approx 4 instances where, when I tried to start the car, it would turn over immediately, then suddenly lose rpms, and die.  Repeated attempts would bear out the same scenario, and then it seemed like the battery was dying.  Eventually, I did have to get a new battery, but despite this, the problem remains, and is getting more frequent.

I have found that I can put my foot on the brake, and the gas, revving it up, and pop it into gear (automatic) and release my foot on the brake at the same time---- I get going, w/o any further problems, once I do.   This probably isn't very good for the car, but when you are stuck, you just want to get unstuck. (Doesn't seem a very good anti-theft device, if I can figure out how to get around it!)

But I have also recently noticed that the "Theft System" light sometimes stays on.  Sometimes, it behaves normally. It has never 'blinked' as some ppl report.  My owner's manual said only that if it stays on, one should take it to a dealership and have the engine checked out.

Never was there any mention in the owner's manual as to what would happen if the anti-theft system was activated. I thought what would occur was that the horn would blast.  But even in reading through everyone's complaints, I couldn't get a clear consistency whether we all had the same problem, or what?(I've had bad batteries, bad starters, bad solenoids with other cars, and this wasn't that!)

I called the 'local' Chevy dealership here in Podunk, USA, some 25 miles away, and told the service manager my car's symptoms.  He said he had absolutely "no idea" what could be the problem, and it might be a matter of guessing.  He also mentioned that it would cost $80/hour just to look at it, and take a guess, I suppose.  Told him I'd have to think about it; something sure smelled fishy to me....

Then a friend of mine, a WOMAN, clued me in.  Seems to me that if a housewife was aware of the problem, a service manager at a dealership sure as heck should have had some idea!  Well, after that, I began looking on the net, and found heaps of stuff about this problem, but because of varying symptoms, I'm still not sure we all have the same problem.

I don't want to spend $1,000 to 'maybe' fix it! I feel the problem is something that GM should recall.  Instead, they're reeling in the bucks on repairs, and getting away w/ 'murder'.

Please, if you would be so kind, tell me what you think. I'm more than willing to bypass the system, as the chances of theft here are slim, but the chances of my getting stuck are great. Do I HAVE to go to a dealership?  I don't want to.  Where do I begin?

My problem has been, that if I can get my car to a repair shop, it's not having a problem.  If it is, I can't get it there.  

Please advise, and thank you!
Gail  

Answer
Hello,

I sure don't want to come off like the srvice manger you talked to. I will just take longer to say I don't know. LOL

First, when speaking anit-theft, you are speaking of two different entities as they relate to your car. Let's start with you think the horn will go off, the lights will flash and then engine won't start. 90% of the Chevies out there only have keyless entry with a panic and is not an alarm as many think.

Even if equipped with a factory alarm, they are more trouble than they are worth and can be driven down the road or be towed with the horn blaring and the lights flashing. Real impressive (sarcastic) and offers no protection at all. Even a factory alarm problem is not consistent with your discription.

If it had a factory installed alarm, many did not come with an impact sensor. The thief could break the glass crawl in from the window opening, grab what they wanted inside and go out the same way and the alarm wouldn't trigger! The only time it would trigger is if the door was opened.

They could break the outer plastic door handle and do lock damage and not a peep!
The only advantage to having a factory system, is that the proud owner of such a option can only get it repaired one place (dealer) when in malfunctions and as the car gets older gets harder to repair because service manuals are not available forever and niether are the parts.

Bypassing them is next to impossible to do because major circuits other than the alarm are affected. Maybe the headlights won't work. Maybe you can't shut off the wipers etc. Does the factory alarm stop theft? Not on your life!

Fortunately for you, you probably only have keyless entry, but then maybe not if you have "Theft System" insteady of "Security" lighting up.
If you want to know if it is equipped with a factory alarm, give the 17 digit VIN to any GM dealer and they can print you a copy of the option list and you will know everything that the car came with when built. Shouldn't cost you anything but your time.

One other thing-factory alarms have such a bad reputation for false alarms, that no one even pays attention to them.

The other so-called anti theft system you have is the ignition-based PASSLOCK. As for security aspect, its not much. There are no special ignition keys. You can make a new ignition key at the hardware store for $3. The system is totally reliant on the security of the ignition lock, which is not secure. Not trying to scare you, but the manufacturer sold a real bill of goods here giving owners a very false sense of security.

There are locksmiths that use the title "forensic", that have written pieces, that if this lock cylinder is force rotated, the magnet on the ignition lock plug will break off. I am here to tell you they are wrong! This system may supposedly be designed to do that, but I have never seen it, and the engine will start and run!
Forced rotation is when a thief jams a screwdriver into the ignition lock, hits it with a hammer and then rotates the lock with a vicegrips on the screwdriver.

By design, this lock is not secure! This style lock is different than Fords, Chryslers and others. In most automotive locks, the key goes through the center of the wafer/tumblers, but not on the GMs. When inserted into the lock, there is only one small contact point that the key rides on the wafer.

What such a system does, is get people denied on their theft claims because the expert forensic locksmiths (insurance hacks in most cases in my opinion) who are not thieves, write a report stating the vehicle was impossible to steal, because they were to stupid to know how to do it!! I am a professional thief that only steals vehicles for the courts.

This system is designed only for one type of prevention against theft. If the thief rips out the lock from the ignition housing, the magnetic field that is created when rotating the lock, is then broken and the vehicle's computer will not recognize the rotation and the engine will not start.

Another problem which has variables not related to the miles on a car, but more the amount of times the key is inserted and removed from the lock. This ignition is known as the GM 10-cut. There are 10 cuts on the key and 9 wafers/tumblers ((with exception, if involved in the service bulletin from about 2001-2003 on certain models in which only 7 wafers were installed, because of a binding problem). The lock is very sloppy and I won't bore you with all the details to this, however everytime you use the key, you give the opportunity of more keys close in cut to work the lock.

Not on yours because of the low miles, but on vehicles that have been used a lot, the key will come out of the ignition in any position. Eventually, you don't even need a key to operate the ignition lock.
GM, Ford and Chrysler never made their own locks and keys. This was sub-contracted out to a company known as Strattec of Milwaukee, of which, I had been in the plant often. Some insurance forensic experts don't even know this fact!


Sure went a long way to answer your question didn't I? Well, on occassion I like to show off my knowledge about the factory installed stuff. Something that is definately lacking in the insurance experts I commonly oppose.

I am sure I will ruffle the feathers of one of these gooofs that will leave a nasty comment about me. Yes, the insurance experts that I commonly successfully oppose, when I am representing the insured or defendant when their theft claim is denied and my client is accused as having a part in the theft of their car and that is through heresay an innuendo masqueraded as fact.

I bet you feel real secure now with this fine factory installed security. (lol)

As for the PASSLOCK anti-theft system operation, your description is not consistent with a PASSLOCK problem, at least when you say the engine will run by holding the brake and slamming it into gear. It is also not consistent with a factory alarm issue. If the PASSLOCK is not working when you go to start the engine, it will only crank and not fire will definately not keep running by holding the brake and slamming it into gear. You have something else going on. Worse yet, the problem appears to be only at times, which make it impossible to diagnose and repair.
You are dealing with merely a symptom here that could have one or two things that are actually causing the problem.

You need to get absolutes so you know it is repaired right the first time. Some of those absolutes might be: Is the problem noticed after a certain distance of driving and then the engine is turned off and re-started? Does the problem become present after the car has been parked for a day? Is it weather related? ETC.
You need to nail it down or your time and money will be wasted at the dealer.
They will guess and you are not going to get it fixed!

As for the Security light, you should at lease reset the system. Very easy to do and the dealer would hit you an hour just to do that.

Insert the ignition key into the lock. Turn to ON for 10 min. Turn off. Turn on 10 min. Turn off. Turn on 10 minutes more. You are not starting the engine to do this, you just need the tell tale dash lights illuminated. The process takes 30 minutes.
Some people will do it only for 10 minutes and think that is correct.

In the event the security light comes on again, you need to take it into the dealer for that, but these systems are tempermental and resetting them commonly takes the light out for good. Now you probably know more about the PASSLOCK and the factory alarm systems and possibly know more about the lock than the service manager.

Until you can replicate your intermittant problem, you will find constant frustration because you may think the mechanic fixed the problem and then it rears its ugly head yet again.


There is a real big understanding issue when it comes to the consumer and it is not their fault. In the event there is a security light thatilluminates and there is a engine running issue, the consumer will think they are related because there is not enough information out there for the consumer. Or,the theft light or check engine light is on. This is merely a symptom. The check engine light iluminqation could have a 100 different causes.

My experience in the dealerships was the same way with the technicians. Any problem-transmission, engine running, exhaust, to them it was because of the after market alarm or stereo.

A friend of mine had a buddy that wanted an alarm sticker for his car. No alarm, just the sticker. The son was driving the car a year latter and the engine was running rough. He was dead-set convinced it was from the alarm my friend must have installed. The kid was so upset and angry he had to talk to his dad to find out the car never had an alarm!



I truly wish I had the answer you need, but I don't know. All I can tell you how the systems function, but no one is good at fixing an intermitant problem, unless they are good at guessing in which, they would not be a dealership mechanic, because they could guess the correct numbers for a lottery.

I know you are upset because your problem should have an obvious answer and it would have been that simple 30 years ago before we had to worry about gas mileage, environmental issues, when cars with computers and hundreds of sensors were installed. Even if one has all the electronic scanning equipment, diagnoses equipment, there are times that just won't set codes.

Yes, your problem is serious to you, but would never merit a recall. You have far too much confidence with the government and the manufacturer. I know of many vehicles that should be recalled because they spontaneously combust, and yet they burn a house down and never get recalled. And this goes back to stupid people from NHTSA that don't realize a GMC truck and a Chevrolet truck are the same truck and just named different!
That's what happens when you have engineers doing something that automotive forensic examiners should be doing.


As I said, at least you now know that the PASSLOCK or factory installed alarm is not causing your problem.
Sorry for being so wordy, but that is what a published author does.

Good Luck!


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