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Auto Theft Prevention/Can you hot wire a 2007 Chrysler
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Question
Hi my car was recently stolen. Was wondering if it's possible to hot wire it. There was no broken glass on the floor so jst wondering how the hell they took it. And If the door is unlocked is it then possible to hot wire it? Please help!
Hi Krystal,
Broken glass only means the method of entry was not by breaking the glass. This is a standard investigation question and is stupid!
If the doors were not locked, it just means they were not locked. RF (Radio Frequency) saturation or interference can affect the locking and unlocking of the doors.
You did not say if it was recovered. And if so, in what condition?
The biggest con to the consumer is the "Anti-Theft System" and it does not even prevent theft, but give the insurance company the opportunity to commit bad faith (if the insured had nothing to do with the theft) and wrongly deny the claim.
Hot wiring has not been an amicable method of theft since 1969. There are exceptions, but it depends on what is being hot wired, but the forensic locksmiths that work for insurance companies authoring reports for denial will state they look for such signs.
All this has to be put into perspective: Since these vehicles came equipped from the factory, it created a green light for insurance companies to deny these claims. The Anti-Theft System is the Holy Grail for insurance claim denial!
Many insureds wrongly believe that if their car is stolen. burned or both that the insurance SIU is just trying to find out who stole the car. No, they are on their way to denying the claim and implicating the insured. It's a very ugly process and I will admit, in some cases, the claim should be investigated because the insured is involved with the theft.
The problem is that when hired by the insurance company, the claims people are indoctrinated with the presumption that all theft claims involving reported stolen cars with anti-theft systems are fraud and this is simply not true.
Not only am I a court qualified expert on auto theft and vehicle fires, what many fail to realize is that I have 20 years of insurance claims handling experience as it relates to theft claims.
In other words, when I oppose insurance companies representing the insured, I am the SIU's worst nightmare, because I know everything they will do in advance.
Unfortunately for insurance defense teams that unsuccessfully try to defend these denials in many cases, they are predictable as well.
They never change. The faces change, but their tactics don't. By the way, they monitor everything I write, say or do and as you see, I am an "in your face" type guy.
I still do work for insurance companies and believe it or not, I still work for their defense teams.
It has iritated me sometimes when I have been requested by SIU people (recently from Allstate) to present fraud seminars. They don't want an unbiased approach and it is more than obvious that they only want one side of the investigation. They want me to give them free information on how to build a case against an insured whose vehicle has an anti-theft system. There are many locksmiths that practice junk science that will do these free presentations to procure constant work from the insurance company. They will tell the insurance companies what they want to hear, in which they will make ludicrous claims, in which they can determine last key used.
Except for rare exceptions in the industry, the agenda is to write a report that sounds believable to the layman (the courts), if the claims turn into cases.
Lawyers known nothing about forensic locksmith process and their ability to determine how a reported stolen vehicle was last operated. After all--who would dare question their ridiculous conclusions? I would and I can say without a doubt, I am looked at with disdain and fear or loved and respected. There is no middle ground. The unsuccessful opposition forensic locksmiths are commonly forced to explain how they reached their conclusion and although they don't admit to using their special tool (crystal ball), it becomes more than obvious, that must have been how they reached their net opinion with no basis. It is that way because they say so.
One of the first thoughts here is what does a locksmith know about theft? In most cases nothing.
Something that really makes me wonder as should insureds and insurance companies. locksmiths know nothing about vehicle electronics. Why is a forensic locksmith assigned to determine how a reported stolen vehicle with a Smart key or a key fob in which the vehicle has no key or lock?
Better yet, why are locksmiths examining burned cars, especially with Smart key technology? Because they can and it brings in more insurance business!
Let's say your vehicle has a Smart key, which at the time of this writing you did not supply enough information for me to reference. The vehicle is recovered totally burned. The expert forensic locksmith will concluded" the electronic ignition assembly and starter button demonstrated no signs of bypass and the vehicle had to be last operated with a properly programmed key."
Now, is this conclusion wrong? We don't know, however it causes concern. Why? Well the dash was consumed by fire, dropping the starter button and ignition assembly to the floor into the burn debris. For these components to drop, either the wires were cut from a hot wire situation or they broke from the heat of the fire. There is no possible way to determine anything about the starer button or the ignition switch. In this case, one would have to show intent that this opinion was deliberately meant to deceive, or the forensic locksmith is naive and has no clue as to what he is talking about, which is not criminal. I am not giving legal advice here and am just presenting the arguments I have seen.
Now, to say the vehicle was last operated with a properly programmed key is a good guess, but not a fact, because many events dealing with aluminum foil in the smart key socket may or may not be there any longer.
Some of these cases have turned criminal in which I have a real problem with. To program a smart key and any transponder key in the vehicle requires the use of an electronic scanner plugged into the OBD II port under the dash. In the case of a fire, all the wiring is destroyed and in many cases, so is the computer. Nothing can no longer be electronically confirmed, which makes everything from the forensic locksmith a guess. This may meet the civil threshold of preponderance for denial, but it sure as heck does not go to reasonable doubt!
I know you were not prepared for an answer this long, but as you see, I do know what I am talking about when it comes to determining the last operation of a reported stolen vehicle.
All of this sometimes can be overwhelming to an insured that had nothing to do with the theft. They keep trying to support their innocence which gets them into trouble during the SIU investigation.
Unlike being charged criminally, you are not given Miranda rights, however in these cases the insured is guilty until being proven innocent. Once denied, your name is put on a secret insurance database as committing fraud.
When retained by the insured, I can guide them through the investigation process and prevent the insured getting deeper into the tangled web. If denied, I can assist them into trying to get the denial resolved and worse case, I can refer to attorneys specialized in these matters in many states.
Allstate, State Farm, Progressive are very familiar with me as are other companies.
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Answers by Expert:
Rob Painter, ASE, CFL, CFEI
Expertise
My background in auto theft is extensive. I have been directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft recovered vehicles. I also do insurance investigation as to how a vehicle was last operated. My clients are insurance companies and attorneys. Was featured in the A & E auto theft documentary "Stealing Wheels" July 26, 2000. Has consulted with Daimler Chrysler steering column engineers to make their steering columns harder to defeat. Holds patent # 6,039,140 for 8 different variations to protect air bags from theft.
Experience
ROB PAINTER, ASE, CFL, CFEI Forensic Vehicle Component Analyst Diplomate, Board Certified Forensic Examiner ASE Certified Auto, Collision, Med/Hvy/Duty Truck Technician Certified Forensic Locksmith Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator Certified Vehicle Fire Investigator Certified Forensic Auto Theft Examiner Certified Auto Theft and Fraud Expert http://www.autotheftexpert.com Email-rpainter@wi.rr.com P.O. Box 190 Big Bend, WI 53103 Phone (414) 698-9696 Fax (262) 662-1352 As per federal court rules of evidence (702) (Daubert) my testimony has qualified me as: Auto Theft and Fraud Expert Forensic Vehicle Analyst Fire Origin and Cause Expert In the trial transcript of Holiday vs Progressive Insurance Company (March 12, 2002?Eugene, Oregon) with Holiday being my client-named ?the expert for experts.? BUSINESS EXPERIENCE Founder of the ?Forensic Institute of Auto Theft Analysis? (January 2002). This is the training school that will set the standards in determining the last operation of a reported stolen vehicle-burned or unburned. Much of my testing and procedures have been accepted as the guide for the forensic community. 1986 opened Auto Recovery Specialists Inc., providing exclusive repair of theft recovered and vandalized vehicles. The initial concept of the business was to return vehicles to their original shape before the theft, vandalism or fire. In 1987 bought the rights to the theft deterrent known as the ?Chicago Collar?. Duties include complete component replacement: dash, stereo system, interior, locks and coding, rebuilding steering columns, repairing and installing vehicle security system components (factory and after market), engine components, body repair, glass replacement, repair and service of air conditioning components, brake and suspension repair, and replacement, wiring harnesses etc. to return vehicle to pre-theft condition Complete reconstruction. During the past 17 years directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft-recovered and fire damaged Personally examined and rebuilt thousands of steering columns on both import and domestic vehicles Internationally acknowledged as expert in auto theft including court, consulting with insurance companies, attorneys and law enforcement. Consultant on steering columns, locks, stereo systems and vehicle security for Special Investigation Units for many large insurance carriers during the past eight years. Consulting services include but not limited to: How a vehicle was last operated (with or without keys in burned or unburned vehicles), Origin and Cause of vehicle fires, and vehicle defects. Provides services as a consultant and researcher to attorneys and insurance companies, and private industry throughout the US in cases related to vehicles. Has worked with crime prevention officers throughout the US establishing training programs designed to protect the public from becoming victims of auto theft. PATENT: 3/21/00 issued patent# 6,039,140 for 8 different variations of airbag anti-theft devices. PUBLICATIONS Currently authors articles and test reports on an ongoing basis for SIUs and the forensic/vehicle fire industry. Published author: (1,297 slide training course) Auto Theft/ Fraud Training Course) ?The Modern Forensic Approach to Auto Theft Investigation.? (January, 2001) Author: ?Variables to Be Considered In Vehicle Fire Investigation after Suppression.? (Insurance publication-November 2001) Author: ?Ford Magnesium Steering Columns and the Results to Ignition Components after a Fire?. Article for peer review from the fire and forensic community. (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM VATS.? (Article) (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM PASSLOCK TM? (Article) (November 2001) Author:? Auto Theft Investigation: Hollywood vs. Reality? (Article) (February 2001) For the John Cooke Fraud Report. Published author: (Manual) ?Forensic Vehicle Fire/ Arson and Auto Theft Investigation? (October 2000) Published author: (Article) ?Petty Claims? for the John Cooke Fraud Report (October, 1998) Published author (Manual) ?AUTO THEFT: LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN!? (1998) (Previously distributed by Barnes & Nobel) Co-authored the investigation manual, ?Surreptitious Entry & Auto Theft & Burn & the Investigator.? (1999) Authored test questions on the subject of steering columns and vehicle security for CFL designation to be given by the International Association of Investigative Locksmiths. January, 2000 Published author: (Manual) ?Saginaw Steering Columns-What Has Not Been Told? Training manual for fire investigators. (March 2000) Published (Article) ?Beyond The Lock? (May 2000) Published Author: (Article) Fraud Defense Network-August, 2000 Edition-?Melting Steering Column Tests.? http://www.fraudreport.com/index.cfm?month=08&year=2000 Published author: (Test Report) ?Burned Toyota Steering Column Testing to Determine How Last Operated?. Tool marks and procedures. (December 1999) Currently at the FBI Crime Lab in Washington DC and the US Army Crime Lab in Atlanta, GA for peer review. ACCOMPLISHMENTS Defeated the ?unstealable? Ford Securilock transponder system for a court case 10/10/00. They said it could not be done! Primary designer of a state of the art ?bait? car for a police department to catch car thieves. Worked with The National Highway Safety Transportation Administration and discovered a potential fire hazard on a vehicle and determined origin and cause of under hood fires on this type of vehicle. Featured as ?Auto Theft Expert? in the A & E auto theft documentary ?Stealing Wheels? that aired July 26, 2000. Contacted by Sears and Edelman Marketing to be a national spokesman for an anti theft device for vehicles. (November 1999) Invited to provide evaluation and consulting to steering column engineers at Daimler Chrysler Corporation in Auburn Hills, MI (10/19/99-10/22/99). The purpose of this project was to demonstrate how steering column locking mechanisms could be defeated without the use of a key and how to reinforce the columns against theft. Court Qualified as an Auto Theft Expert and my videos of defeating columns were also accepted by a Cleveland, Ohio Court in October 1999 as a valid piece of evidence. Contacted by Disney Touchstone Pictures for technical assistance in making the movie ?Gone in 60 Seconds? (March 1999) CONSULTANT FOR FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ? Former contributor for The Insurance News Network (Auto theft and prevention) includes heading a forum for the public on how to protect their vehicles for 3+ years. ? Former editor and consultant for the public on matters involving auto theft and prevention 2000-2001 on the web at http://www.autotheft_forum.com. ? The Insurance Career Center (Auto theft and fraud). ? National Association of Investigative Specialists (Auto theft and fraud) ? Expert Find (Auto theft and fraud} TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE ? ASE (National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence) Certified in Auto: brakes, steering and suspension, engine repair, manual drive train and axles, air conditioning. Med/Heavy duty truck: gasoline engine repair, electrical/electronic components. Collision: elec.....
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