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Question
vehicle was stolen and when vehicle was recovered there was no sign of forced entry to either the doors or ignition or steering lock. The insurance comp sent key to be forensics and they say that there is no recent use of key in lock or ignition in there opinion for at least 6 months how can this be as this is the only key i have and have used it in locks the day before it was stolen please help.
Hello,
Oh, I have started a real rumbling in this profession. I work for insurance companies and I am the only one that represents insureds, either during the investigation or after the claim has been denied. Forensic locksmithing or at least as I have seen it done over the last 10 years is commonly a joke. A monkey could do what many are. Just shove a key into the lock, spray it with penetrating oil, which damages the key way even more. Rarely are the locks removed,disassembled comparing the internal riding surfaces of the wafers (tumblers)under a microscope to all known tools (keys) for identifiable tool marks or wear marks.
Instead, reports have conclusions arrived to without the use of the scientific method being applied in which all known hypotheses have to be eliminated.
When I oppose these guys, it truly amazes me to the incompetence (in my opinion) that they try to pass off to the court under the ruse of "Forensic."
I have been attacked by these guys for a number of years with deflection and misdirection. Pay attention not to their crappy conclusions and their reports, but the obfuscated facts about me.
Forensic locksmithing has very little to do with how a reported stolen vehicle was last operated because generally, everything is built around the lock, not theft. After all they are locksmiths and I have been that, but I am an expert in auto theft and how to determine how a reported stolen vehicle was last operated. I have been directly involved in the repair of more than 10,000 theft recovered vehicles and they haven't.
My thing is that if one under the badge of forensics, does not fully examine the ignition lock correctly using common sense as a guide, the methodology is severely flawed.
as for forced entry on a vehicle, these days most cars are locked and unlocked with wireless transmitters. There are things such as RF (radio frequency) and EMI that can affect the locking and unlocking. Owner may have thought he locked the doors and they did not lock.
Vehicles can be entered with common lock out tools available to anyone. The forensic locksmith may state he observed no signs of forced entry, but there is a caveat there. Just because he observed no signs does not mean it was not force entered, unless he is going off of preassumed damage. This being he would have made those marks if he broke it. That just means he wasn't any good at forced entry.
There's lots of resistance to what is on my website, because these guys for years that have made conclusions they cannot factually support are actually going to have to actually do work now.
Over the weekend I intend on putting up reports illustrating that what these guys from to organizations hailing themselves out as forensic locksmiths are not doing anything more than you do to start your engine.
The word forensics is very powerful and in the case of these examinations actually being the starting point in the claim if the insured will even get the claim honored or if it goes under an intense investigation.
It is my opinion that most of these guys just care about the insurance buck and don't care if they tun the insured's life upside down.
In other words, you would need an expert such as myself to scrutinize their work and believe me, they don't appreciate it when I reveal the short comings in their examinations!
Have had my website hijacked by one of these goofs using a different suffix (yes, I can prove as liars and thieves) as it relates to one firm.
Look at my site http://www.autotheftexpert.com where it explains with common sense how to support a conclusion based on the scientific method or common sense approach.
Now, if this question is a phony question by one of you forensic locksmiths, I invite you to study this information. This is not my methods although I use them and you don't need a degree in science.
I just put this information up a couple days ago. They don't like their names mentioned. Too bad! I always can backup everything I say and write and these bull crap reports will be in front of the world to see and as to what they can't prove by the lack of removing the lock, disassembling, and the use of a microscope to compare marks from keys to wafers. We are just to take their word for it. If you are one of them, I hope you learn something. At either rate--Enjoy! More is coming!
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Answers by Expert:
Rob Painter, ASE, CFL, CFEI
Expertise
My background in auto theft is extensive. I have been directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft recovered vehicles. I also do insurance investigation as to how a vehicle was last operated. My clients are insurance companies and attorneys. Was featured in the A & E auto theft documentary "Stealing Wheels" July 26, 2000. Has consulted with Daimler Chrysler steering column engineers to make their steering columns harder to defeat. Holds patent # 6,039,140 for 8 different variations to protect air bags from theft.
Experience
ROB PAINTER, ASE, CFL, CFEI Forensic Vehicle Component Analyst Diplomate, Board Certified Forensic Examiner ASE Certified Auto, Collision, Med/Hvy/Duty Truck Technician Certified Forensic Locksmith Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator Certified Vehicle Fire Investigator Certified Forensic Auto Theft Examiner Certified Auto Theft and Fraud Expert http://www.autotheftexpert.com Email-rpainter@wi.rr.com P.O. Box 190 Big Bend, WI 53103 Phone (414) 698-9696 Fax (262) 662-1352 As per federal court rules of evidence (702) (Daubert) my testimony has qualified me as: Auto Theft and Fraud Expert Forensic Vehicle Analyst Fire Origin and Cause Expert In the trial transcript of Holiday vs Progressive Insurance Company (March 12, 2002?Eugene, Oregon) with Holiday being my client-named ?the expert for experts.? BUSINESS EXPERIENCE Founder of the ?Forensic Institute of Auto Theft Analysis? (January 2002). This is the training school that will set the standards in determining the last operation of a reported stolen vehicle-burned or unburned. Much of my testing and procedures have been accepted as the guide for the forensic community. 1986 opened Auto Recovery Specialists Inc., providing exclusive repair of theft recovered and vandalized vehicles. The initial concept of the business was to return vehicles to their original shape before the theft, vandalism or fire. In 1987 bought the rights to the theft deterrent known as the ?Chicago Collar?. Duties include complete component replacement: dash, stereo system, interior, locks and coding, rebuilding steering columns, repairing and installing vehicle security system components (factory and after market), engine components, body repair, glass replacement, repair and service of air conditioning components, brake and suspension repair, and replacement, wiring harnesses etc. to return vehicle to pre-theft condition Complete reconstruction. During the past 17 years directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft-recovered and fire damaged Personally examined and rebuilt thousands of steering columns on both import and domestic vehicles Internationally acknowledged as expert in auto theft including court, consulting with insurance companies, attorneys and law enforcement. Consultant on steering columns, locks, stereo systems and vehicle security for Special Investigation Units for many large insurance carriers during the past eight years. Consulting services include but not limited to: How a vehicle was last operated (with or without keys in burned or unburned vehicles), Origin and Cause of vehicle fires, and vehicle defects. Provides services as a consultant and researcher to attorneys and insurance companies, and private industry throughout the US in cases related to vehicles. Has worked with crime prevention officers throughout the US establishing training programs designed to protect the public from becoming victims of auto theft. PATENT: 3/21/00 issued patent# 6,039,140 for 8 different variations of airbag anti-theft devices. PUBLICATIONS Currently authors articles and test reports on an ongoing basis for SIUs and the forensic/vehicle fire industry. Published author: (1,297 slide training course) Auto Theft/ Fraud Training Course) ?The Modern Forensic Approach to Auto Theft Investigation.? (January, 2001) Author: ?Variables to Be Considered In Vehicle Fire Investigation after Suppression.? (Insurance publication-November 2001) Author: ?Ford Magnesium Steering Columns and the Results to Ignition Components after a Fire?. Article for peer review from the fire and forensic community. (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM VATS.? (Article) (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM PASSLOCK TM? (Article) (November 2001) Author:? Auto Theft Investigation: Hollywood vs. Reality? (Article) (February 2001) For the John Cooke Fraud Report. Published author: (Manual) ?Forensic Vehicle Fire/ Arson and Auto Theft Investigation? (October 2000) Published author: (Article) ?Petty Claims? for the John Cooke Fraud Report (October, 1998) Published author (Manual) ?AUTO THEFT: LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN!? (1998) (Previously distributed by Barnes & Nobel) Co-authored the investigation manual, ?Surreptitious Entry & Auto Theft & Burn & the Investigator.? (1999) Authored test questions on the subject of steering columns and vehicle security for CFL designation to be given by the International Association of Investigative Locksmiths. January, 2000 Published author: (Manual) ?Saginaw Steering Columns-What Has Not Been Told? Training manual for fire investigators. (March 2000) Published (Article) ?Beyond The Lock? (May 2000) Published Author: (Article) Fraud Defense Network-August, 2000 Edition-?Melting Steering Column Tests.? http://www.fraudreport.com/index.cfm?month=08&year=2000 Published author: (Test Report) ?Burned Toyota Steering Column Testing to Determine How Last Operated?. Tool marks and procedures. (December 1999) Currently at the FBI Crime Lab in Washington DC and the US Army Crime Lab in Atlanta, GA for peer review. ACCOMPLISHMENTS Defeated the ?unstealable? Ford Securilock transponder system for a court case 10/10/00. They said it could not be done! Primary designer of a state of the art ?bait? car for a police department to catch car thieves. Worked with The National Highway Safety Transportation Administration and discovered a potential fire hazard on a vehicle and determined origin and cause of under hood fires on this type of vehicle. Featured as ?Auto Theft Expert? in the A & E auto theft documentary ?Stealing Wheels? that aired July 26, 2000. Contacted by Sears and Edelman Marketing to be a national spokesman for an anti theft device for vehicles. (November 1999) Invited to provide evaluation and consulting to steering column engineers at Daimler Chrysler Corporation in Auburn Hills, MI (10/19/99-10/22/99). The purpose of this project was to demonstrate how steering column locking mechanisms could be defeated without the use of a key and how to reinforce the columns against theft. Court Qualified as an Auto Theft Expert and my videos of defeating columns were also accepted by a Cleveland, Ohio Court in October 1999 as a valid piece of evidence. Contacted by Disney Touchstone Pictures for technical assistance in making the movie ?Gone in 60 Seconds? (March 1999) CONSULTANT FOR FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ? Former contributor for The Insurance News Network (Auto theft and prevention) includes heading a forum for the public on how to protect their vehicles for 3+ years. ? Former editor and consultant for the public on matters involving auto theft and prevention 2000-2001 on the web at http://www.autotheft_forum.com. ? The Insurance Career Center (Auto theft and fraud). ? National Association of Investigative Specialists (Auto theft and fraud) ? Expert Find (Auto theft and fraud} TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE ? ASE (National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence) Certified in Auto: brakes, steering and suspension, engine repair, manual drive train and axles, air conditioning. Med/Heavy duty truck: gasoline engine repair, electrical/electronic components. Collision: elec.....
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