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Auto Theft Prevention/Transponder Key and Fuel Pump

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Expert: - 8/31/2011


Question
QUESTION: Following up on a previous online answer by you, please confirm that a fuel pump can be tested properly without the use of the transponder key. If yes, how?  If no, why not? (this specifically relates to a 2002 Crown Victoria, 4.7L)

ANSWER: Hello,

I answer questions constantly and unless you give me the context to my answer, I am not familiar with this.

What many don's understand with the PATS, it doesn't only effect the puel pump, but injection pulse in the start mode only.

You can supply a separate power source to the fuel pump at the connector in the tank and see if the fuel pump runs because this way you are circumventing all the electronic components to the PATS.

If you ran this out of gas, you could have very possibly burned up the fuel pump from sucking air.

You are not telling me why you are trying to start the car without the key though. Without they key, the PATS is enabled anyway.

http://www.autotheftexpert.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Retrieved a friend's 2002 Crown Vic from storage/tow yard. It had been there for about 30 days. It would not start so had it towed to a neighborhood mechanic. Was told it needed a new fuel pump. After the fuel pump was installed, mechanic called to tell me he needed the transponder key to "reset" the computer and get it to start. Apparently the storage/tow yard did not have the coded/transponder key...only a door key. I was clueless about this key. The mechanic also indicated he realized the key issue after he installed the fuel pump but that the pump was still bad. I now think that the problem was just the key...not the fuel pump. Mechanic says he checked the pressure at the beginning and it was around 5 psi. After installing the fuel pump it tested much higher. He is also saying that he "jumped" the fuel pump to test. Why would he have done this? Just want to make sure I paid for something that was really needed.

ANSWER: Hello,

Now that you told me the story, I can answer your question. He didn't realize it had a transponder? Where did you find this guy? Don't know if fuel pump needed replaced. As I said, if run out of gas, fuel pumps will burn up immediately.

Ford has used transponders since 1998 in all thier vehicles.

All you need to do is contact a locksmith that can make a transponder key and your good to go.
It cost me with the service call for my Ford truck $150 in Dallas which I thought was high, plus had to wait 8 hours for the goof. That should put you on the road!


http://www.autotheftexpert.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sorry for another follow up. I am pretty sure there was gas in the vehicle. I was able to locate the transponder key (the storage/tow yard just had the plain, silver door key and it was being used to try to start it). I took the transponder key to the mechanic and it started right up (of course, this was after he installed the new fuel pump). He still maintains that he tested the fuel pump via jumping it and it was bad. Just wonder what would make him even "jump" the fuel pump in the first place. He has been in business for 30 years. I still think that he finally realized about the key issue after he installed the fuel pump...so is trying to cover.

Answer
Hello,

Don't be sorry, I am glad you told me and by the way (I was correct) LOL

Now, go down to a ACE hardware store because they are the only hardware store that I knew of them doing this and go get another key made so you have at least 2. Price should not be too steep. Because of its age, you can have the key electronically cloned just by giving them your key and then they can cut the key. It is always good to have a spare. I think wife's friend's 2 year old took my only key for my truck and stuck it in his dirty diaper. Of course never found and to her it was a big joke, but I was not laughing.

As for the fuel pump, you probably did not need one, but there is no way I can prove it. If he did not disconnect the tank and independently energize the fuel pump, he didn't do it right. If he just jumped the relay with all the factory wiring connected, Ford figured that for security and if the relay is jumped, the PATS is deployed and the engine will not start.

This may have been one of those things he just assumed it was a bad fuel pump not realizing PATS was on it. That can happen, so I don't think you can fault the guy. It happens even to the best.

Changing a fuel pump is not an easy job and I am sure he wasn't excited into jumping into it. Of course he won't admit if he was wrong and really, why embarrass him? Besides, it really can't be proven if it was good or bad.
Let it go and if you have been going to him for a long time and you trust him, I tell you to continue to do business with him.

I am really glad it all worked out for you--get another key!

http://www.autotheftexpert.com

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Rob Painter, ASE, CFL, CFEI

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My background in auto theft is extensive. I have been directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft recovered vehicles. I also do insurance investigation as to how a vehicle was last operated. My clients are insurance companies and attorneys. Was featured in the A & E auto theft documentary "Stealing Wheels" July 26, 2000. Has consulted with Daimler Chrysler steering column engineers to make their steering columns harder to defeat. Holds patent # 6,039,140 for 8 different variations to protect air bags from theft.

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ROB PAINTER, ASE, CFL, CFEI Forensic Vehicle Component Analyst Diplomate, Board Certified Forensic Examiner ASE Certified Auto, Collision, Med/Hvy/Duty Truck Technician Certified Forensic Locksmith Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator Certified Vehicle Fire Investigator Certified Forensic Auto Theft Examiner Certified Auto Theft and Fraud Expert http://www.autotheftexpert.com Email-rpainter@wi.rr.com P.O. Box 190 Big Bend, WI 53103 Phone (414) 698-9696 Fax (262) 662-1352 As per federal court rules of evidence (702) (Daubert) my testimony has qualified me as: Auto Theft and Fraud Expert Forensic Vehicle Analyst Fire Origin and Cause Expert In the trial transcript of Holiday vs Progressive Insurance Company (March 12, 2002?Eugene, Oregon) with Holiday being my client-named ?the expert for experts.? BUSINESS EXPERIENCE Founder of the ?Forensic Institute of Auto Theft Analysis? (January 2002). This is the training school that will set the standards in determining the last operation of a reported stolen vehicle-burned or unburned. Much of my testing and procedures have been accepted as the guide for the forensic community. 1986 opened Auto Recovery Specialists Inc., providing exclusive repair of theft recovered and vandalized vehicles. The initial concept of the business was to return vehicles to their original shape before the theft, vandalism or fire. In 1987 bought the rights to the theft deterrent known as the ?Chicago Collar?. Duties include complete component replacement: dash, stereo system, interior, locks and coding, rebuilding steering columns, repairing and installing vehicle security system components (factory and after market), engine components, body repair, glass replacement, repair and service of air conditioning components, brake and suspension repair, and replacement, wiring harnesses etc. to return vehicle to pre-theft condition Complete reconstruction. During the past 17 years directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft-recovered and fire damaged Personally examined and rebuilt thousands of steering columns on both import and domestic vehicles Internationally acknowledged as expert in auto theft including court, consulting with insurance companies, attorneys and law enforcement. Consultant on steering columns, locks, stereo systems and vehicle security for Special Investigation Units for many large insurance carriers during the past eight years. Consulting services include but not limited to: How a vehicle was last operated (with or without keys in burned or unburned vehicles), Origin and Cause of vehicle fires, and vehicle defects. Provides services as a consultant and researcher to attorneys and insurance companies, and private industry throughout the US in cases related to vehicles. Has worked with crime prevention officers throughout the US establishing training programs designed to protect the public from becoming victims of auto theft. PATENT: 3/21/00 issued patent# 6,039,140 for 8 different variations of airbag anti-theft devices. PUBLICATIONS Currently authors articles and test reports on an ongoing basis for SIUs and the forensic/vehicle fire industry. Published author: (1,297 slide training course) Auto Theft/ Fraud Training Course) ?The Modern Forensic Approach to Auto Theft Investigation.? (January, 2001) Author: ?Variables to Be Considered In Vehicle Fire Investigation after Suppression.? (Insurance publication-November 2001) Author: ?Ford Magnesium Steering Columns and the Results to Ignition Components after a Fire?. Article for peer review from the fire and forensic community. (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM VATS.? (Article) (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM PASSLOCK TM? (Article) (November 2001) Author:? Auto Theft Investigation: Hollywood vs. Reality? (Article) (February 2001) For the John Cooke Fraud Report. Published author: (Manual) ?Forensic Vehicle Fire/ Arson and Auto Theft Investigation? (October 2000) Published author: (Article) ?Petty Claims? for the John Cooke Fraud Report (October, 1998) Published author (Manual) ?AUTO THEFT: LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN!? (1998) (Previously distributed by Barnes & Nobel) Co-authored the investigation manual, ?Surreptitious Entry & Auto Theft & Burn & the Investigator.? (1999) Authored test questions on the subject of steering columns and vehicle security for CFL designation to be given by the International Association of Investigative Locksmiths. January, 2000 Published author: (Manual) ?Saginaw Steering Columns-What Has Not Been Told? Training manual for fire investigators. (March 2000) Published (Article) ?Beyond The Lock? (May 2000) Published Author: (Article) Fraud Defense Network-August, 2000 Edition-?Melting Steering Column Tests.? http://www.fraudreport.com/index.cfm?month=08&year=2000 Published author: (Test Report) ?Burned Toyota Steering Column Testing to Determine How Last Operated?. Tool marks and procedures. (December 1999) Currently at the FBI Crime Lab in Washington DC and the US Army Crime Lab in Atlanta, GA for peer review. ACCOMPLISHMENTS Defeated the ?unstealable? Ford Securilock transponder system for a court case 10/10/00. They said it could not be done! Primary designer of a state of the art ?bait? car for a police department to catch car thieves. Worked with The National Highway Safety Transportation Administration and discovered a potential fire hazard on a vehicle and determined origin and cause of under hood fires on this type of vehicle. Featured as ?Auto Theft Expert? in the A & E auto theft documentary ?Stealing Wheels? that aired July 26, 2000. Contacted by Sears and Edelman Marketing to be a national spokesman for an anti theft device for vehicles. (November 1999) Invited to provide evaluation and consulting to steering column engineers at Daimler Chrysler Corporation in Auburn Hills, MI (10/19/99-10/22/99). The purpose of this project was to demonstrate how steering column locking mechanisms could be defeated without the use of a key and how to reinforce the columns against theft. Court Qualified as an Auto Theft Expert and my videos of defeating columns were also accepted by a Cleveland, Ohio Court in October 1999 as a valid piece of evidence. Contacted by Disney Touchstone Pictures for technical assistance in making the movie ?Gone in 60 Seconds? (March 1999) CONSULTANT FOR FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ? Former contributor for The Insurance News Network (Auto theft and prevention) includes heading a forum for the public on how to protect their vehicles for 3+ years. ? Former editor and consultant for the public on matters involving auto theft and prevention 2000-2001 on the web at http://www.autotheft_forum.com. ? The Insurance Career Center (Auto theft and fraud). ? National Association of Investigative Specialists (Auto theft and fraud) ? Expert Find (Auto theft and fraud} TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE ? ASE (National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence) Certified in Auto: brakes, steering and suspension, engine repair, manual drive train and axles, air conditioning. Med/Heavy duty truck: gasoline engine repair, electrical/electronic components. Collision: elec.....

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