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Auto Theft Prevention/PATS...again
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Question
02 Ford 350 (triton w/ propane conv.), front end collision after big $ investment so purchased from ins co after "totaled", sat for 4 years, body work completed, news keys from Ford, rapid blinking theft light, Dealership maintains that something is wrong with the instrument cluster ($1500 repair), we think it's PATS, now resetting system but need to know how to identify wiring in order to run power from starter to battery to verify our diagnosis. Can you help direct us to wiring diagrams or other thoughts on the subject (short of bypassing system with your kit)?-funds are tight and sick of Ford's inept/self serving ways
Hello,
I see a slight little problem to your PATS analysis on this vehicle. The F-250, F-350, F-450 were not equipped with the ignition transponder system until 2008. Unless this truck is an anomaly because of its propane conversion, and I would not understand that, the PATS is not on your truck according to all my reference material.
Instead of believing the dealer (I never do), I would suggest buying the Ford service manual if available for your truck for $30 at http://www.alldata.com.
These trucks did have cluster problems and many times the manufacturer would use one theft light to cover two different systems, the ignition based transponder and the optional factory alarm. (Really stupid). This manual is downloadable and good for a year. It should walk you through any of your concerns with easy to understand diagnostics.
Please don't let the self-promotion brought up here but;
Since you bring it up, I am going to address the options for insureds stuck with this system that are being investigated by their insurance company for being a party with the theft of their vehicle because according to all insurance companies when dealing with any of these anti theft systems are considered "unstealable", no matter what kind of vehicle it is.
Ford started using this so-called "anti-theft" junk on the Expeditions in 1997 and on the F-150 in 1998 as far as the trucks went. It wasn't until 2008 that Ford used it on the lager trucks, thus making them capable of being stolen in less than 60 seconds with no key what so ever.
Also loved the design of a door lock mounted in plastic and a brittle magnesium steering column in which a screwdriver could be placed between the ignition lock and housing, one good tap with a hammer and the ignition lock assembly would come right out and the ignition assembly could be circumvented with a screw driver and DTR (Down the Road).
One of the most popular for theft in Dallas, and never to be seen again! Shows you that Ford went 10 years to install the PATS (Passive Anti-Theft System) to protect their trucks on the F-250 and above!
My thoughts and opinion is that this way Ford had the opportunity to sell more trucks and replacement vehicles.
The PATS does not stop theft either, but if stolen gives the insurance company the opportunity to deny the claim because their locksmith forensic experts don't have a clue as to how easy these so-equipped vehicles are stolen.
These guys are just a so-called "Independent" forensic experts that will say because they see no damage to the internal ignition components that because considered "unstealable" because of their ignorance (intentional or non-intentional)the F-150's and sometimes too stupid to assume the F 250 and above are equipped with PATS. The end result is to infer the insureds keys were last used to operate the ignition and the claim would be scheduled for further investigation and denial.
Currently, we are turning these investigations on end because during the investigation process, they are hiring the firm I consult for instead of attorneys that will automatically doom the fate of the insured for years! We attempt to keep these "investigations out of the court system all together if we can.
If the insurance company can use their "Independent" forensic expert, the insured should have their own opportunity to use their own expert as well, before the investigation turns into a court case.
Insurance companies don't know how to handle this--too bad!
Here is the crap I have been dealing with, that we are so good at assisting the insured in, whether it is just a mere investigation where the "forensic" expert alters the vehicle (not evidence because not a court case, even though insurance company tries to treat it as so--
Investigation--Keys are in sealed evidence bag--Insured at our instruction photographs insurance investigator take scissors out, cut the bag an break the seal--so much for "Evidence." (insured's parts).
Case- Forensic examiner has only two transponder keys to examine out of four with two unaccounted for in a car that is totally burned with no evidence states car could not have been operated with anything other than a key, yet absolutely no proof to support this statement. He's done! Our report addresses all the issues he can't prove.
2 cases- cars not recovered and only evidence forensic examiner has is two keys with the assumption masqueraded as fact because they have anti-theft, were not stolen--
Investigation--electrical ignition bypassed. Forensic examiner removed steering column and altered vehicle.
The list goes on an on. Almost all vehicles have a so called "anti theft system" in the vehicles and all can be bypassed or have keys made in 60 seconds!
Of course this is the difference between having a locksmith as an expert with no knowledge on theft compared to a professional thief that does not steal cars, but will give an honest conclusion.
This game of the investigation based on the inept incompetent independent forensic experts (in my opinion)opinions as to all these vehicles equipped with so-called anti-theft can't be or weren't stolen according to them, prompting investigation of the insured in a theft claim or case, are over. The game has seriously changed! If the expert does not have a basis for his conclusions, we will expose him!
When it is said anti theft systems cannot be defeated, I suggest that ya'll watch the series "Crime Inc." to be aired in August on MSNBC. It will blow your mind! The manufacturers have all lied to us about the effectiveness of anti-theft systems--Truly gone in 60 seconds! Dealers who have been misinformed by the manufacturers acting as agents for them, have proved their ignorance in stating these vehicles are "unstealable."
It will be interesting!
http://www.autotheftexpert.com
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Answers by Expert:
Rob Painter, ASE, CFL, CFEI
Expertise
My background in auto theft is extensive. I have been directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft recovered vehicles. I also do insurance investigation as to how a vehicle was last operated. My clients are insurance companies and attorneys. Was featured in the A & E auto theft documentary "Stealing Wheels" July 26, 2000. Has consulted with Daimler Chrysler steering column engineers to make their steering columns harder to defeat. Holds patent # 6,039,140 for 8 different variations to protect air bags from theft.
Experience
ROB PAINTER, ASE, CFL, CFEI Forensic Vehicle Component Analyst Diplomate, Board Certified Forensic Examiner ASE Certified Auto, Collision, Med/Hvy/Duty Truck Technician Certified Forensic Locksmith Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator Certified Vehicle Fire Investigator Certified Forensic Auto Theft Examiner Certified Auto Theft and Fraud Expert http://www.autotheftexpert.com Email-rpainter@wi.rr.com P.O. Box 190 Big Bend, WI 53103 Phone (414) 698-9696 Fax (262) 662-1352 As per federal court rules of evidence (702) (Daubert) my testimony has qualified me as: Auto Theft and Fraud Expert Forensic Vehicle Analyst Fire Origin and Cause Expert In the trial transcript of Holiday vs Progressive Insurance Company (March 12, 2002?Eugene, Oregon) with Holiday being my client-named ?the expert for experts.? BUSINESS EXPERIENCE Founder of the ?Forensic Institute of Auto Theft Analysis? (January 2002). This is the training school that will set the standards in determining the last operation of a reported stolen vehicle-burned or unburned. Much of my testing and procedures have been accepted as the guide for the forensic community. 1986 opened Auto Recovery Specialists Inc., providing exclusive repair of theft recovered and vandalized vehicles. The initial concept of the business was to return vehicles to their original shape before the theft, vandalism or fire. In 1987 bought the rights to the theft deterrent known as the ?Chicago Collar?. Duties include complete component replacement: dash, stereo system, interior, locks and coding, rebuilding steering columns, repairing and installing vehicle security system components (factory and after market), engine components, body repair, glass replacement, repair and service of air conditioning components, brake and suspension repair, and replacement, wiring harnesses etc. to return vehicle to pre-theft condition Complete reconstruction. During the past 17 years directly involved in the repair of over 10,000 theft-recovered and fire damaged Personally examined and rebuilt thousands of steering columns on both import and domestic vehicles Internationally acknowledged as expert in auto theft including court, consulting with insurance companies, attorneys and law enforcement. Consultant on steering columns, locks, stereo systems and vehicle security for Special Investigation Units for many large insurance carriers during the past eight years. Consulting services include but not limited to: How a vehicle was last operated (with or without keys in burned or unburned vehicles), Origin and Cause of vehicle fires, and vehicle defects. Provides services as a consultant and researcher to attorneys and insurance companies, and private industry throughout the US in cases related to vehicles. Has worked with crime prevention officers throughout the US establishing training programs designed to protect the public from becoming victims of auto theft. PATENT: 3/21/00 issued patent# 6,039,140 for 8 different variations of airbag anti-theft devices. PUBLICATIONS Currently authors articles and test reports on an ongoing basis for SIUs and the forensic/vehicle fire industry. Published author: (1,297 slide training course) Auto Theft/ Fraud Training Course) ?The Modern Forensic Approach to Auto Theft Investigation.? (January, 2001) Author: ?Variables to Be Considered In Vehicle Fire Investigation after Suppression.? (Insurance publication-November 2001) Author: ?Ford Magnesium Steering Columns and the Results to Ignition Components after a Fire?. Article for peer review from the fire and forensic community. (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM VATS.? (Article) (November 2001) Author: ?The Truth About GM PASSLOCK TM? (Article) (November 2001) Author:? Auto Theft Investigation: Hollywood vs. Reality? (Article) (February 2001) For the John Cooke Fraud Report. Published author: (Manual) ?Forensic Vehicle Fire/ Arson and Auto Theft Investigation? (October 2000) Published author: (Article) ?Petty Claims? for the John Cooke Fraud Report (October, 1998) Published author (Manual) ?AUTO THEFT: LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN!? (1998) (Previously distributed by Barnes & Nobel) Co-authored the investigation manual, ?Surreptitious Entry & Auto Theft & Burn & the Investigator.? (1999) Authored test questions on the subject of steering columns and vehicle security for CFL designation to be given by the International Association of Investigative Locksmiths. January, 2000 Published author: (Manual) ?Saginaw Steering Columns-What Has Not Been Told? Training manual for fire investigators. (March 2000) Published (Article) ?Beyond The Lock? (May 2000) Published Author: (Article) Fraud Defense Network-August, 2000 Edition-?Melting Steering Column Tests.? http://www.fraudreport.com/index.cfm?month=08&year=2000 Published author: (Test Report) ?Burned Toyota Steering Column Testing to Determine How Last Operated?. Tool marks and procedures. (December 1999) Currently at the FBI Crime Lab in Washington DC and the US Army Crime Lab in Atlanta, GA for peer review. ACCOMPLISHMENTS Defeated the ?unstealable? Ford Securilock transponder system for a court case 10/10/00. They said it could not be done! Primary designer of a state of the art ?bait? car for a police department to catch car thieves. Worked with The National Highway Safety Transportation Administration and discovered a potential fire hazard on a vehicle and determined origin and cause of under hood fires on this type of vehicle. Featured as ?Auto Theft Expert? in the A & E auto theft documentary ?Stealing Wheels? that aired July 26, 2000. Contacted by Sears and Edelman Marketing to be a national spokesman for an anti theft device for vehicles. (November 1999) Invited to provide evaluation and consulting to steering column engineers at Daimler Chrysler Corporation in Auburn Hills, MI (10/19/99-10/22/99). The purpose of this project was to demonstrate how steering column locking mechanisms could be defeated without the use of a key and how to reinforce the columns against theft. Court Qualified as an Auto Theft Expert and my videos of defeating columns were also accepted by a Cleveland, Ohio Court in October 1999 as a valid piece of evidence. Contacted by Disney Touchstone Pictures for technical assistance in making the movie ?Gone in 60 Seconds? (March 1999) CONSULTANT FOR FOLLOWING ORGANIZATIONS ? Former contributor for The Insurance News Network (Auto theft and prevention) includes heading a forum for the public on how to protect their vehicles for 3+ years. ? Former editor and consultant for the public on matters involving auto theft and prevention 2000-2001 on the web at http://www.autotheft_forum.com. ? The Insurance Career Center (Auto theft and fraud). ? National Association of Investigative Specialists (Auto theft and fraud) ? Expert Find (Auto theft and fraud} TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE ? ASE (National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence) Certified in Auto: brakes, steering and suspension, engine repair, manual drive train and axles, air conditioning. Med/Heavy duty truck: gasoline engine repair, electrical/electronic components. Collision: elec.....
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