Expert: Bob - 3/15/2010

Question
1 - AutoCAD 2010
2 - Architecture, trying to make dashed lines and annotative stuff on layouts, and ON paperspace to look like in model space (not the other way around with msltscale)
3 - learned ACAD from ACAD bible, and  started with ver 2002, i know pretty much everything there is to know about 2D drawing, and 3D modeling. But until now never dived in to layouts and paperspace.

Hello

Firs, general information:
- AutoCAD 2010
- i draw in metric, one unit in model space represents one centimeter.
- most often drawings are plotted at 1:100 and 1:50 scales

A used to work in 2007, plot everything from modelspace, and now upgraded to 2010. I decided it is finally time to learn to plot from paperspace, layouts, use annotative scales and everything that goes with it. I don't quite know how to ask what i want so i'm creating a new drawing, writing down steps and asking questions while i go. I hope this isn't too much :-))

Scales, Annoscales, units... Totally confused me :-(

If i want my drawing to be plotted in 1:100, and annotative blocks to be scaled properly, and dashed lines to be equally spaced in model space and viewports, and paper space, and annotative text and dimstyles to be displayed properly; i must do - what??

1)
I start by creating my title block, for testing purposes A4 paper 21cm × 29.7cm. And it is annotative.

2)
Define scale with SCALELISTEDIT. If i want it at 1:100 i must do this:
One paper unit, in this case centimeter, is created by drawing 100 units (centimeters) in drawing. So i create new scale "C1:100" with settings:
Paper units: 1 = Drawing units: 100
Right?
Same goes for 1:50
Paper units: 1 = Drawing units: 50

3)
Draw couple of rectangles 500×500 and 250×250.

4)
Insert furniture block. That block is also created in centimeters.

5)
Create annotative text style, and create "Test text", paper height: 0.2. So when plotted it is 0.2 cm (2mm) high.

6)
Create annotative block with text in it! Circle with attribute in the middle of it. Insert it.

7)
Create annotative dimstyle, and dimension something.

8)
Create object with dashed linetype (key moment! :-) )

And now my model is finished. Time to start with layout!

1)
Insert titleblock A4, inserted on paperspace it is sized 1:1 so its dimensions are just like i created it 21×29.7cm

2)
Create viewport for scale 1:100. Set standard scale to "C1:100"

3)
Create viewport for scale 1:50. Set standard scale to "C1:50"

4)
On paper space create text stating scales. Paper height 0.5

5)
On paper space create dashed line (another key moment)

6)
Establish that dashed lines spacing isn't drawn correctly. Search the internet find that PSLTSCALE should be 1. Check PSLTSCALE and see that it is indeed set to 1. Scratch behind right ear with left hand...

7)
Try to see what happens when PSLTSCALE is set to 0. Dashed lines in viewports are now as they should be, but the one on paperspace should be like those in viewports, but it is not.

8)
Google some more

9)
Come to conclusion that AutoCAD works on paperspace in millimeters! Since in plot dialog box scale states: 1mm = XY units.
And if i try to plot to force my A4 block to A4 paper scale must be 1:0.1
So AutoCAD must be in millimeters!

10)
Get totally confused. Save current drawing as ExpertQuestion-01, and then save it as ExpertQuestion-02.

11)
Go back to model and redefine blocks and dimstyles, so that everything i've created in centimeters is now in millimeters, i.e. scale everything by factor 10!

12)
Realize than now there is something wrong with scales since everything is huge.

13)
Oh man....

14)
My stuff is in centimeters, but annotative blocks, dimensions and text are in millimeters... And when i plot it must look like they are in centimeters in scale 1:100 i.e. 1:50. So now my scale should be... Ahm... 1:10?... Let's see... Yes! It is 1:10!
Paper units: 1 = Drawing units: 10
Paper units: 1 = Drawing units: 5
Define new scales as "C1:10" and "C1:5"

15)
Again, layout!
Erase everything, insert newly scaled A4, it's dimensions are now in millimeters, 210×297.

16)
Create viewport for 1:100, set standard scale to C1:10
Create viewport for 1:50, set standard scale to C1:5

17)
Draw dashed line on paperspace and see that, again, spacing doesn't mach...

18)
Tray setting PSLTSCALE to 1, and see that now dashed line in viewports is equal to that one on paperspace, but they are all "to big" and look nothing like in model space.

19)
Feel sad, angry, very disappointed in intellectual capabilities and start writing a really long letter to an expert pleading for help.

What i actually want? Dashed lines in model space, paper space and viewports to be the same when plotted. Confusion about scales set to order.
Am i right, AutoCAD "works" in millimeters when paperspace and annotative stuff is in question...

ExpertQuestion-01.dwg and ExpertQuestion-02.dwg can be downloaded here
http://www.box.net/shared/x6fnkumyqp

Thanks in advance!"

Answer
Hi -

I am glad you are tackling this. I must tell you that my time to carefully read each of your 27 or so items and decide how to understand what you are saying would be GREATER than what I think is a fair amount of time to read and reply carefully to a normal question. I am not going to your link and look for anything: I never do that here: I do not open files from strangers.

I suggest you get a new AutoCAD book for 2010 -- you made an error in not learning to use PS properly years ago, and now you have some catchup to do on that (usually takes quite awhile, maybe weeks, to get used to it), plus the annotative scale thing and the blocks, etc.
If you mess around on the Internet trying to figure it out, you will not get nearly as good a result as from a clear book, covering each topic in depth -- and you will waste a lot of time.

If you have an AutoCAD bible from 2000 or later, the viewports and scales are similar to 2010, but the tools to acheive them in 2010 are much better.

If I were to come to your office to work with you on understanding these all, the fee would be many hundreds of dollars. Here, it's free, and I must do what I think is a good effort, not teach several chapters of a book. I hope you understand this.

As you know, I do not normally work in Metric, but I understand it. AutoCAD is drawn in UNITS at full scale. Anyone I know who works in Metric draws in millimeters.

I have no knowledge of that "standard scale Csomething" -- sounds wierd and not needed to me.

If you learn the basics of one area, and want to ask me a SPECIFIC question, once you learn the basics and run into a problem, please write back.

Even if I spent hours and tried to answer everything, you need to go one step at a time when you are so far behind, so it would get you up to speed on all of it.

Good luck

BOB