Expert: Bob - 12/10/2007

Question
QUESTION: I'm an architect, using ACAD 2006.  Started on R12 for DOS, know a lot about the program, been using it for over a decade now, love the program.  The plotting of polylines has me stumped - their width does not plot correctly (yes, FILL is on, no - PLOT HIDDEN is off.  The plot preview correctly shows how the Pline needs to look, however once the drawing is plotted there is no width to the Plines. I can draw a simple line and by putting it on different layers with different colors, have it plot out at different lineweights.   I have tried putting the PLine on different color layers to see how it plots and nothing changes - always plots light and with no width.  HELP please.

ANSWER: Hi -- well, with that knowledge, you should be on AutoCAD Architecture 2008, and not fooling around with just drafting, lol.

Seriously, I am receiving the question at 11 PM, and I am very willing to help, but I first need to know:

1 -- when did this start? Always, or maybe after adding customization, a 3rd party app, or a new plotter?
2 --- is it happening only with your old color dependent plot style, or with other plotstyles you try selecting?
3--- happening in both model and paper space?
4--- does a check plot you print on a small printer have the same problem?
5-- if you send the file to a friend to plot, or plot to a file and have it printed at a shop, same problem?
(you said nothing about the plot styles or the plotter)

Let me know and I will try to find the reply for you on Wednesday.  Perhaps I will have you send me a sample file.

BOB

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Wow Bob, what a fast response.  If ACAD 2008 wasn't so @&*% expensive, all the consultants would be on it and none of us would have a problem reading each other's files. However, as I need to coordinate with them and they are using God knows what programs/ releases, it is proving to be less of a headache on this project to use 2006 and not mess around with too much with back saving to previous versions.  

1. I don't remember when this started, may have always been there and I just didn't notice? How come I didn't notice?  Probably because I don't tend to use Plines with specific widths on the majority of drawings.  It is only on the enlarged details that it is very apparent, for example:  a detail where I may use a Pline for the flashing and place it on a "heavy" plotting layer to emphasize how it surrounds a roof drain.  But of course it plots so light as to be barely noticable, which is why I noticed it.  I've been solving the problem by exploding the Plines - yeah, I know and I don't want to hear it.  But for the love of Mike, I shouldn't have to be doing that.  Happened with the old plotter and also with the new one.
2. hmmm, haven't tried other plot styles.  Will try that when I'm back in the office on Thursday.  I'm working from home until then.  Will also try sending to the newest new plotter to specifically looking at PLine widths.
3. yes
4. yes, has occurred on 2 full size plotters and a laser printer now.
5. have not sent the plots to be plotted by someone else. However, have created a PDF and lineweights appear good, then plotted PDF and Plines plot light with no width.  Again, a regular line on different colored layers will plot with different lineweights in the PDF but not the Pline.  Maybe it is the driver?  Huh?

No worries about getting me an answer right away.  I would just love to know what the heck is going on.  Until then, I'll just keep exploding Plines and keeping their remains on "heavy" layers.

Thanks for any words of wisdom you may be able to give me,  I can send a sample dwg/plt/pdf if you deem it to be neccessary.

ANSWER: OK -- I spoke to my first teacher, a muck muck at a major studio.  He was shocked to hear that your dwgs preview right, print wrong. Never heard it.

The basic problem is that when we hear ..Started on R12 for DOS, know a lot about the program.. we know we likely  have somebody who was turned off by Autodesk's BS of several years back, and stopped learning the nuances of each release, uses it like the old ones. (You are nicer and more flexible than most)
My point is that there could be many stops along that way where you went wrong.
BTW--- I did not tell you that you should be on AUTOCAD 2008, but ACA (formerly Architectural Desktop), if not 2008, 2006 is fine.  If you were, you would work faster and open the drawings via templates that get everything right.
With plain Acad -- you should also have templates with all your layouts and all the right settings and styles, and all your blocks and commom commands in tool pallettes. Most of the longtime users seem to still be on custom toolbars, and color based plot styles.
NOW--
pls try
1-- in model space, type LTSCALE and set it to the scale you will be plotting at  (ie 24 for 1/4 inch). In Paper Space, type PSLTSCALE and be sure it is on (I forget if tha is zero or 1, I think 1)
2--if no improvement, you might be using an STB template with a CTB plot style, so type CONVERTPSTYLES.

Personally, I would open a new drawing on the correct template and copy/paste some of an old dwg in, to see if you got a better result.

You could certainly select another plotstyle when doing a test plot on your home printer, to see if the style you are using is messed up.

AND THIS JUST DAWNED ON ME ---I have tried putting the PLine on different color layers to see how it plots and nothing changes - always plots light and with no width.-----
I HOPE YOU KNOW THAT THE LINEWEIGHT OF THE LAYER DOES NOT AFFECT THE WIDTH OF PLINES, AND YOU MUST CHANGE THE WIDTH IN THE PROPERITES PALETTE (or PEDIT, or  the command line, right-click, or  Dynamic Input when drawing) This would explain why exploded plines plot correctly.

I hope this helps. Let me know.

BOB



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hey Bob,

I think you may have helped me identify the issue.  Read on for how.

I had tried playing with the LTSCALE (BTW it is 48 for 1/4"...) and PLTSCALE before I contacted you.  But changing those settings didn't affect how the plines plotted and only messed up everything else.  

Now I realize I am probably set in my ways re: plotting in ACAD, and the new way of plotting (adjusting lineweights of the layers) is very different. I have plotted using the new method but I still prefer plotting with color dependent plot styles... Yes, you are rolling your eyes.  Oh well.

I discovered the issue w/ the PLINES plotting weird when working on wall sections and inserting BLOCKS of structural members (beams/ studs etc).  I needed the structural members to plot w/ a lineweight so they'd be clearly visible in the plotted sheet - at the plotted scale, a heavy lineweight is all that is required to "pop" them out of the detail.  The BLOCKS were PLINES with a specific width - created by using the PEDIT command.  These blocks came off a project back in ACAD 2000 days - if that helps to identify the problem.

Here is how I solved the issue (which may/ may not be the correct way of doing it):  I had to redefine ALL the blocks and take away their widths, again by using the PEDIT command.  After I did that, everything plotted correctly, and as I'm obsessed with using blocks, I still got to keep all of them!

When I returned to the office and before editing the PLINES, I plotted to 2 fullsize plotters and one laser printer - sent both PLT files and PDFs - all plot previews looked PERFECT with correct lineweights and ALL plotted with practically invisible PLINE lineweights of the blocks.

Now, I have absolutely no %#$@ idea as to why in ALL the plot previews, the PLINES previewed EXACTLY how I wanted them to plot, yet NONE of them plotted that way in reality.

Regardless, it was your last line: "HOPE YOU KNOW THAT THE LINEWEIGHT OF THE LAYER DOES NOT AFFECT THE WIDTH OF PLINES, AND YOU MUST CHANGE THE WIDTH IN THE PROPERTIES PALETTE," that gave me the idea of setting ALL the PLINE widths back to zero and seeing what happened.

The only thing I can think of, is that the PLINES were trying to plot with their PEDITED widths and at the scale I was plotting, their PEDITED widths were smaller???  Does that make sense?

Anyway, I made the deadline.  The plots look good.  And I can't wait to get a 9-5 job.  Ha ha.

Thanks for your help!  

Answer
Michelle -- glad you solved it.

But many lashes with a very damp noodle for not mentioning that the PLINES were in blocks.

Nowadays, since we parked the buggy, we tend to like to keep all our blocks of a certain category in one drawing, all on their proper layers, so that when we drag them into the current drawing off the Tool Palette we have created, they are all set.

Of course, if you were on ADT or ACA, you would have all the structural members you pretty much want in the program already.

We hope you are not typing PEDIT, when highlighting a pline and rightclicking to choose polyline edit seems faster, and of course, one can use Dynamic Input to change the width onscreen while drawing the pl.  Am I getting across that you ought to go to the HELP pulldown in 2006, select New Features Workshop, and study up, or buy a book.

I will bet you are fast, but I will bet I could make you 20% faster.

BOB