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BDSM/Master/Slave interaction and Personal Growth

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I am running an advice chat room on collarme for beginners.  I get all kinds of questions and I figured it is a good way for me to learn about gaps in my own understanding and help me develop into a better person and Master. I openly admit to all that I have much to learn in the lifestyle and I understand that it takes time and willingness to grow in order to achieve proficiency in anything.

I mentioned that I run a help chat and I notice that a lot of new Dom/Tops/Masters have concerns over unruly sub/slaves/etc. I give the standard advice on setting boundaries,enforcing limits, and remaining consistent and illegitimately listening to the complaint so you can assess your course of action and address issues instead of wrestling with them... Which I think is sound advice to give.  However, even I find that it can be difficult when you have a willful sub/slave.  For instance... A Master has a slave that requires she have a consistent bedtime for her mental and emotional health and she agrees and understands that she has to be in bed at a specific time. The Master prompts the slave that it is past her bed time and she goes off on him about how she is not stupid or a child.  The Master calmly reminds her that he knows that she is not stupid or a child but that he is prompting her to maintain her routine because it is in her best interests. To which she becomes defiant and i dare say pouty making what i would call as borderline disrespectful comments before retiring from the chat.  She did as she was instructed...  This did several things.  It destabilized the mindset of the Master because he was unsure what to do in a virtual environment and served to embarrass him in front of others to the point that he felt he had done something incorrect in handling that situation and made him feel weak(he later stated in private.)  My question to you would be what is the course of action you would suggest in this type of situation with this type of sub/slave and how can this behavior be effectively dealt with on an interpersonal level.

Theory will only take a person so far and I was hoping you could suggest both theories, and draw on your experience to suggest a better way I can help others who may have this issue. I know this issue will arise again and I am sure something like this will present itself to me personally at some point... I would appreciate it if you had some wisdom to offer on this difficulty with personal interactions.

Answer
Morning, Jason...

I'm interested in your CollarMe project.  I'm just finishing a book titled: Exploring the World of Kink: A Modern Guide to BDSM and you're working with folks who are my primary audience.  If you can think of a way that I can proved backup support to you, let me know.  My regular email is: PowerExchangeEditor@Yahoo.com and on Fet I'm Dr_Bob.

I guess I'm a little confused whether you're describing real-time M/s or Internet M/s.  I'll do my best to answer, though.

Number of things...

First, many in the BDSM communities have a porn/movie view of Master/slave structures.  This is the: "Me Tarzan, you jane: you do what I want or I'll beat you" view of this.  In this view, the slave's views/wants may or may not be considered as "Master" holds the view that the slave's duty is to Master before herself.

Next, you have "Masters" leading "slaves" as an extended scene.  The guy isn't a natural leader and doesn't have the age/experience in leadership roles to know how to empower and guide a person and ends up with a girl who likes him and will go along with the program to some degree, but is not about to obey blindly.  Most of these structures are love-based rather than service/obedience-based (the Leather approach).

Third, few Masters seem to tie meaningful consequences to bad behavior.  In part, this is because it takes a lot of work to monitor someone who won't do as they're asked and in part it's because Master doesn't really care so long as the slave is a good sex partner and generally goes along with the Master/slave ego-building parts of the relationship.

Now: these folks might benefit from reading some of the serious writers in this field.  I'll leave my own books out of it and refer to Guy Baldwin, Jack Rinella and, in particular, Raven Kaldera (who promotes the Leader/manager model of M/s.

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Your "willful slave" comment:  Master has to decide whether his model of "slave" is of a wholly competent person who is now volunteered to be his "support staff" or if his model of "slave" is that this slave it to empty itself of ego in order that Master can refill it with his own will.  This is really the polar difference between Raven's work and, say, the viewpoint of SlaveMaster as expressed on www.bornslaves.com

That is, the "Master" has to figure out which philosophical approach he's taking before he can then puzzle out a management style that fits that slave.  And, let me hasten to point out, "management styles" are a fairly sophisticated topic and live largely in the world of academic study and business training.  As people learn in different ways, a good Master, as any good manager, would need not only to know about different management styles but also the slave's learning style.  Two major variables that combine with the Master's own teaching style to make this topic extremely complicated.

Summary: To the extent that the slave's will is focused cooperatively with Master's will on a common long-term goal, they can probably work out the details; to the extent that the Master declines to do long-range planning and guided training for his slave, the relationship will last about as long as their mutual sexual attraction lasts.


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Bed times: Master is micro-managing.  How about Master telling slave: You are responsible for managing your own time so that you are available for me from X to Y times of day in peak mental/physical condition.  How you do that is up to you, but if you don't do that there will be consequences.  Now, Master has to work out the consequences that include ending the relationship.  This is a consensual structure in modern times and if the two of them are not aligned in their vision of what they're doing as a couple, then they're going to have a rough time of pretending they're a couple.

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If you're describing 100% chatroom-based M/s I'm rather at a loss.  I've never done that.  I've heard of "Masters" giving all kinds of make-work demands on "slaves" (which is bound to piss off any intelligent s-type who sees their potential being squandered by some idiot) and always wondered why the two of them didn't work out some mutual project and then apportion their responsibilities accordingly.  In that model, the two people are working towards a common purpose and growing both in adult maturity and in knowledge at the same time.  But I'm doubtless old enough to be your grandfather and have come to appreciate the scarcity of time and value of intellectual and personal energy.

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I'm going to turn this back over to you.  If I've missed your point and you are looking for something more specific, try me again.  It can be hard to give specifics for the range of situations you're likely to run across on CollarMe.

By the way, my new book is specifically intended for those who are stepping out from Internet relationships into real-time.  It should be up on Amazon within a few months.

Thanks for your willingness to volunteer your time to help our community,

Bob

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Robert Rubel (Dr. Bob)

Expertise

Anything related to BDSM or Master/slave relationships or activities.

Experience

See: www.KinkMastery.com I live 24/7 Master/slave lifestyle and have since 2002 both as Master and slave. My Owner and I present and do "weekend intensives" internationally and at BDSM conferences practically every month.

Organizations
Masters And slaves Together (MAsT) National Leather Association - International (NLA-I) National Coalition for Sexual Freedom (NCSF)

Publications
+++ BDSM Mastery—Basics: your guide to play, parties, and scene protocols. +++ BDSM Mastery—Relationships: a guide for creating mindful relationships for Dominants and submissives +++ Master/slave Mastery: Updated handbook of concepts, approaches, and practices +++ Master/slave Mastery--Advanced: Refining the fire; ideas that matter +++ Master/slave Mastery--Protocols: Focusing the intent of your relationship +++ Is THAT What They Meant? A book of practical communication insights

Education/Credentials
PhD, Urban Education Policy Studies with a minor in criminology, U of Wisconsin, Madison. EdM, Boston University with specialty in urban education Presented 80+ BDSM weekend conferences worldwide since 2007.

Awards and Honors
Pantheon of Leather Community Choice - Man, 2008

Past/Present Clients
Not applicable.

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