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BDSM/Sadist - masochist relationship

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QUESTION: Hello,

I have a question about sadist-masochist relationship and it's psychology. I am writing a novel where one of the characters is a sadist (more of a mental type), but I am not sure weather I should make his partner a masochist or not. It seems that a sadist is an ideal match for masochist, because one likes to inflict pain and the other likes to receive it. But I was wondering, doesn't it annul the pleasure if the sadist sees that the masochist actually LIKES to be tortured? I mean, the masochist can be screaming and so on, but it isn't the REAL suffering if it's being enjoyed, is it? Is it still arousing for the sadist? Shouldn't he be disturbed and displeased and try to find someone who would be unhappy about the suffering? In my novel I am looking for a person who, even being tortured, wouldn't satisfy the sadist. Is this possible? Or does any kind of hurting work for a sadistic person?
It would be really great if you could help me.

Thank you very much!

Rasa

ANSWER: Hi, Rasa --

This requires a bit of a complex answer with some hedging...

First, if you look up the six classes of sadist, you'll find that you cross the line between "controllable" and "uncontrollable" sadism between as Class III and a Class IV sadist.  That is, someone who enjoys hurting others but doesn't want to inflict "harm" and those that do -- leading up to the Class VI sadist who kills people for pleasure.

Then, on the masochistic side, there are those who enjoy "intense sensations" and then there are "pain sluts" as they're called within the BDSM community.

Now, if you want a realistic discussion about how a true sadist can play with a regular play partner and still scare the shit out of them, I refer you to the book: "The Forked Tongue".  While you probably have to read the whole book (it's very small) to get to the last chapter, it's in the last chapter that brings you your answer.

Now: you're speaking of mental sadism.  This includes humiliation play, intimidation, and various forms of what would be mental abuse unless consensual.  You risk writing a book that makes readers uncomfortable, by the way.  Perhaps the most common form of sadist psychological play involves hypnotism.  If you go onto www.fetlife.com (it's free -- it's the "Facebook" for us kinky types) and look up erotic hypnotism you'll get a lot of material.  If you register for Fet, I'm Dr_Bob: feel free to send me a friend request.

A tip: When you choose a topic for your sadist to practice on his "victim" it's important that the sadist not pick a "real" topic to belittle.  That is, if the victim has a big nose or a small cock, those kinds of topics are off-limits.  A good example of an on-limits topic would be "balancing the checkbook" if the person were an accountant-type in real life.  The problem with psych play is that if it's mishandled, you can do real harm to someone's sense of self.  Very risky territory.

Feel free to write back with other questions.

We're leaving for New Years in another city right now, so I may not be able to get right back to you.

Happy New Year,

Bob (and Jen who helped with this reply)

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you guys for your answer!

It would be great if you could help me a bit more. I'll tell you what kind of relationship I have in mind. I hope I don't bother you too much.

The sadist in my novel is the controlling type, most probably Class I or Class II. And there is this girl who is naive and weak, but desperately seeking to prove otherwise and to get some new, intense experience in her life. She meets the sadist and falls in love with him. She wants to get love from him, emotional and physical. Now the interesting thing is that he WOULDN'T have sex with her even though she wants it really bad. This is his kind of mental torture. She is attached to him already so she can't leave him even though she feels she's not getting what she should. Sometimes she would make a scene, then he would fondle her to calm her down, but nothing more. And he would force her to talk about every cruel thing and hurt she had through her life even though she doesn't want to do that and relive it again. He has a complete control over her. Just because she is in love and is weak and still seeks to get something in return gives him the power to hold her close by promising physical love but never giving it, so torturing her at the same time, and also using her to get the satisfaction from the harm of her past. He isn't very cruel as you can see, but their relationship isn't agreed, she's not a slave that chose to be one, she's actually a victim.
Now, would this kind of relationship work? Could it happen like that in the real life? And yes, I was thinking about the disturbance of the reader, but I believe this topic is on-limit.

And now the other thing. At the end they have a really big fight and she reveals that she is a masochist and she was hiding that all the time. She is mad at him because she saw how he tried to play with her. So she tells him that none of his torture actually made her suffer and that she liked it and that he was the one that lived in a lie. And he gets angry and very disturbed because he realizes that he never had the control, and that the pleasure he got was somehow perverse and awry, and that he can't live with her because he would never get the relation he wants. I was thinking about this ending A LOT. Because I am not sure if it's realistic or not. Could THIS happen? Could the sadist feel this way?

I hope I didn't confuse you and bore to death. I'm really seeking for help about the psychology of sadists, it would be amazing if you could help me once again!
Thank you so so much and Happy New Year to you as well! Even if they have passed already.

Rasa

Answer
Jen and I had the time this morning to sit down and read through your plot.

To the central issue -- could such a thing happen -- I would say, "Sure, anything is possible given the right two people."  Your scenario is well within the bounds of relationships that we know of.  Obviously, sexual withholding is fairly common as a manipulative technique.  As your male character is apparently not interested in penetration sex, you may want to allude to some underlying "issue" that he has (whether physical, psychological -- penis size or prior abuse -- or how perhaps not attracted to women sexually, only through psychological control).

The twist in your second paragraph -- that in the end she was controlling him -- is quite clever.  His anger is going to be the triggering point; perhaps in the past some woman controlled HIM and that flashback now causes a reaction.  He may lash out at her, withdraw emotionally, have some kind of mental breakdown, etc.

This is about all the psychological background/info that we know as we don't usually do psychological play.  If you sign up for www.Fetlife.com you are likely to find lots of people who are into heavy D/s play.  There are lots of related "groups" that you can search.  It's a free site.  I'm Dr_Bob and Jen is M_Jen.  If you join Fet, feel free to send us friends requests.

We both send you our best wishes for your project!

Bob and Jen

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Robert Rubel (Dr. Bob)

Expertise

Anything related to BDSM or Master/slave relationships or activities.

Experience

See: www.KinkMastery.com I live 24/7 Master/slave lifestyle and have since 2002 both as Master and slave. My Owner and I present and do "weekend intensives" internationally and at BDSM conferences practically every month.

Organizations
Masters And slaves Together (MAsT) National Leather Association - International (NLA-I) National Coalition for Sexual Freedom (NCSF)

Publications
+++ BDSM Mastery—Basics: your guide to play, parties, and scene protocols. +++ BDSM Mastery—Relationships: a guide for creating mindful relationships for Dominants and submissives +++ Master/slave Mastery: Updated handbook of concepts, approaches, and practices +++ Master/slave Mastery--Advanced: Refining the fire; ideas that matter +++ Master/slave Mastery--Protocols: Focusing the intent of your relationship +++ Is THAT What They Meant? A book of practical communication insights

Education/Credentials
PhD, Urban Education Policy Studies with a minor in criminology, U of Wisconsin, Madison. EdM, Boston University with specialty in urban education Presented 80+ BDSM weekend conferences worldwide since 2007.

Awards and Honors
Pantheon of Leather Community Choice - Man, 2008

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