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BDSM/Starting a relationship with someone else's slave

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Question
This is a question about what is possible, and what is not.

I am an open minded and curious male who has dabbled in most aspects of BDSM.  I have always been in control in my relationships, but on occasion I do top from the bottom and instruct my partner or partners to "top" me (being the bottom can be fun!).  In my 20s and 30s I had several relationships which ventured into D/s, but not 24/7.  One woman offered to be my slave, but I declined, I was unwilling to accept the responsibility.  In general, I am very supportive and constructive in all of my relationships, and I invariably encourage my partners to grow and become more.  I have often taken the role of mentor in relationships, including relationships that have included a significant D/s play, but have not yet moved to a 24/7 Dom or Master role -- rather I have always striven to hold up my partners as equals, except for the occasional play session.  Now that I am in my 40s, I am thinking that perhaps I need to accept more responsibility.

I have recently met a woman, call her Barb (not her real name), in her 30s, who is very submissive and giving by nature, especially in the bedroom, but is also showing an independent streak and a desire to to spread her wings and expand her horizons.  I see this woman as a perfect partner -- I absolutely adore her in the bedroom, and perhaps more importantly, I see the opportunity to mentor her in her desire to grow and help her become a greater person.

This woman, Barb, and I have gotten to know each other over the past few months with intermittent meetings (her life is complicated, see below).  We have had several BDSM themed meets, including one where I put a collar on her for the night, and another where I instructed her and her girlfriend to "top" me (which was the next day after I put the collar on her).  This last move was a mistake.

As I have since come to learn, this woman is in a traditional, male dominated, BDSM M/S/s poly relationship, with her being the s.  The relationship is crumbling as the Master is absent (in prison) leaving the senior S to run the household.  My woman, Barb, is obviously straying, and the senior S is aware of some of it.  

After I got Barb and her girlfriend to "top" me, the girlfriend told the senior S about the night.  Barb was subsequently punished and did not see me for about a month.  When she finally got around to seeing me, she told me about her M/S/s relationship, told me her Master was furious with her for allowing another man to put a collar on her, and told me that she had lost all respect for me for allowing her to "top" me.  I tried to point out to her that I was the one in control (and I was) but she would have none of it.  With that I resigned myself to losing a beautiful and fascinating girl, but all hope was not lost.

About a month later we got back in touch with one another and have again become intimate, both physically and emotionally.  We have not explored any BDSM themes as of yet.  Barb has indicated to me that she is looking to leave her household, and I am sure that she would not have the consent of her Master or senior S to do so.

With that long prologue, I have three questions.  

First, can I take this slave from her Master?  I am not asking whether the Master will let me, rather I am asking if it possible convince a slave to leave her Master?  She clearly wants to leave, but at the same time, she has been in that relationship for many years and is struggling to leave the comfort of familiarity, as well as undoubtedly quite a bit of desire to remain obedient to her Master.  If I were to take Barb from her Master, in what capacity should I do so?  Should I strive to be her new Master, or can I revert to my past practice of being the Dom primarily in the bedroom but pushing for equality between us in the rest of our lives?  Barb, being a slave, definitely leans towards gender biased power exchange 24/7.  I see that she can be more, and would like her to be more (she also sees that she can be more, or should be more).  As I mentioned in my opening paragraph, am I at a point where if I want to be with this woman, that I just have to accept more responsibility and control/guide her life more completely?  That is, do I just have to accept the situation and strive to become her Master?

Second, regarding Barb losing all respect for me after I got her to "top" me, I am wondering how to deal with this situation.  Now clearly some of what Barb said stemmed from her being punished after her girlfriend spoke with the senior S.  But also Barb comes from a more narrow minded school of kink where BDSM roles are gender defined and dominant men don't do what I did.  Can I regain the respect that I have lost in Barb's eyes?  I think I can and have a plan, but I would love your opinion on whether it is viable.  Barb and I have agreed to meet again, and we have agreed to have some BDSM play the next time we meet.  My plan is in this session to not just top Barb, but to Dominate her, and thoroughly Dominate her making it clear to her that I am in control.  I am thinking that I should probably even discipline her for even thinking that I wasn't in control in the other session.  I am hoping that by demonstrating my dominance to her, I can more readily explain to her that I was in control in the previous session, and through this, regain her respect.  I think this could work, or that it would work for any normal girl, but would you concur?

Third question, how?  How do I Dominate this girl, this slave of another Master?  And how do I supplant him and become her new Master?  Thinking back through all the conversations that I have had with Barb, she has done quite a lot and has very few limits.  With any normal girl, I could readily dominate them through a combination of force of personality, tease and denial, tenderness tempered with discipline and some BDSM play -- with time, all the women that I've played with in the past submit.  But this girl is in a different league.

Now I have tried to discuss the situation with Barb, and while she clearly indicates that she wants to leave the household (and has also allowed me to put a collar on her in the past), she is completely hesitant to discuss her Master with me.  Instead of discussion, I think what I need to do is thoroughly Dominate this girl -- not just top her, but get her to do things and get her to let me do things to her, that she hasn't let any man do.  And that is my plan.  I have taken a mental catalogue of all the experiences and limits that Barb as told me about, and the next time we get together, I am going to take her to those limits, and then gently try to push past them.  Does this seem reasonable to you?  

Moreover, I am guessing that I need to treat Barb like a slave.  By this I mean that her present Master is a sadist and a bastard.  That means that if I am going to Dominate Barb, I am going to have to be sadistic at some point.  Not only am I going to have to cause her pain, but I am going to have to degrade and humiliate her.  And I have to do this in a safe and consensual fashion.  I already have a plan for our next meet to accomplish this, but before I go forward and treat this woman in this way, I wanted to check with an expert that I am not being foolish.

My closing assumption is of course that if I do manage to Dominate Barb, she will see me as someone who could replace her Master.  No, not just a replacement, but an upgrade.  Then Barb and I could discuss and negotiate the terms by which we can have a relationship, be it M/s or D/s.

Any thoughts?

p.s. There is one issue that I have ignored, and that is the other Master.  I understand that what I am doing is frowned upon.  I won't go into details, but I am fine with that, and I can live with the consequences.

Answer
Will

Topping from the bottom always creates confusion and problems for those involved. It muddies the line and makes things more difficult. Now on the basics to your questions.

Should you "take" a slave from another master, well strong feeling here on that. In the old days it was a kin to thievery, today it is more like adultery. In either case it signifies a person of low ethical values. What I would ask though is something different, how would you feel if the situation is reversed? Now given that slavery is illegal and that morality is largely a bogus factor these days it comes down to relationships. If she wants a change then so be it. If you want to make a more real and regular commitment and she want this as well then basic human dynamics will come into play.

On the loosing respect, hell I have discovered once lost it is a very long and slow road to recover it; if ever. I am not sure how, this also will affect the long term with her so be wary.  SADISM does not make one a MASTER, it is an a style that is all. If you are not sadistic being so will be difficult given the soft way that you have treated others in the past. I am not sure you are up to the task; it will always be hollow and without the emotional parts to it if you truly aren't a Sadist. It will be clearly a game and if anything continue the decline in respect. Being a SADIST I know that it is in effect giving the MASOCHIST the interactions that they need without any real thought of yourself. Your rewards come from doing a fully thorough and sustain delivery to their needs and little beyond. At times it may actually be necessary to NOT think of them as human in order to over come any cultural baggage you may have.

As to the last question; I will not give advice on how to do something which is against the core of my being. It would be like a priest teaching you to be a devil worshiper.

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Aramock Nanuck

Expertise

I will answer any questions concern the lifestyle and may annoy a few because I do dive into the history and psychology of this lifestyle in many of my answers. I have a partner a Femdom Mistress who shares my experiences and assets, as I hers. Also belonging to a couple groups in Europa and Asia. Traveling frequently between the continents. We tend to share information and discuss many of the topics frequently. I will focus on the core items around, training and relationship management for those that are interested.

Experience

I have been involved in the lifestyle since being introduced to it by my father at the age of 13. He was a master in the 50's to 80's but predated the popularity of Gor, and was Pharaonic in nature. I owned my own slaves since my early 20's. I have usually been part of a poly household. For about 6 years three of us ran a BDSM club in Prague until it was "acquired" by the Russian "businessmen". I do not hold any moral taboos about this lifestyle and at one time or another have experience or seen everything imaginable. It is in this absence of mrals that principles, protocols and personal honour must determine the worth of an individual. It is their clear and unwavering adherence to these ethics that make for stauncher things than those which some observance by mere lip service to common morals. When men/women of honour lead, then they do so without malice, without negativity and without thought of personal gain. It only then that they truly attain Dominon over others. Therefore in mastery comes a devotion to duty, and the existence, needs and desires of others that exceeds the submission mere slaves give to the Dominant. A Dominant one must lead, govern, educate and enrich the lives of subjects beign ruled... for otherwise they are but a sycophant and a tyrant. Hedonism and narcissism plays no part in this, it is an apparition that forms from acts done at much higher levels of meaning that mere morally bound persons can not see.

Organizations
I belong to a number of local clubs, and a loose association (not formal) of about 25 masters and mistresses here in Western Europe and Asia who share experiences, training and some exchange trade assets.

Publications
I have not published on BDSM under my name, but contribute frequently to forums. I am consolidating my writings slowly on DarkCastleSin.org for any that are interested in reading.

Education/Credentials
Not relevant although I do have a DCS and DT but I am not Christian so have no moral dilemmas with this lifestyle.

Awards and Honors
Not applicable here, come on in our lifestyle these do not exist but should. When was the last time we had public awards for Worlds Darkest Sadist, World's Most Gifted Shibaru Artist, Worlds Most Diligent Mentor, World's Most Gifted Enthusiast,

Past/Present Clients
Not relevant; private consults remain so.

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