Expert: Dr Don Howe - 12/14/2008

Question

Dear Sir;
First time to write  you.  Found you on a  Web  search.  Hope this isn't too long.

I just had a disturbing experience when I went to pick up my dogs at the Kennel.
The care taker said she was a pagan.  I had a  horrible encounter with a Satanic priests once. I was a bit scared  and uncomfortable but, I did the best  I  could.

I told her I wouldn't debate or argue  with her but with a smile  on my face, I did try and  witness  to her.  God will hold us accountable if we  don't witness,  don't you think?

She use  to be a Baptist,  said she had  studied  different religions,  (including the  occult) said this was hell,  she believed in  Karma and we could stop sinning if we wanted  to.  I did my best to dispute those in a kind way but there are still things  I wish I had, had said but I was  concerned it would alienate   her.  Again, I was very kind in taking to her.
As I was talking to her, I was  silently praying for her.  

I came  home and  still am feeling very guilty and depressed about the encounter.  If  I find out the owners are Pagan,  despite the  problems,  it  will  cause me, later,I am not sure  I am going  to board  them?  Should I?   I know I can't avoid people who aren't Christians and don't think I  should.

What should I have said?  I know she has a right to her opinion but.. Your cancel please and  hope  this make sense.

Thanks so very much.

Sarah

Answer
Sarah, thank you for your question. I am sorry you had such  a frightening experience. Sarah, you stated “The care taker said she was a pagan.” We first need to know what our terms are and who we are dealing with, and what does God think about them. Let us look at the first thing as what is a pagan and what defines what a pagan is.

WHAT IS A PAGAN?
    
   Sarah, this is a very broad term. On the Apologetics Index website, http://www.apologeticsindex.org/311-paganism-2 states “The term ‘paganism’ used to refer to primitive, non-Christian religions. Currently it is also used as a catch-all term for movements and beliefs like Wicca, Magic, polytheism, etcetera.” So anything that is not Christian can be called paganism.
    George D. Chryssides in his book Exploring New Religions    states
“The root meaning of ‘pagan’ (latin paganus) was a country dweller. Country dwellers, being removed from city life, did not practice the religions of the wealthier and more educated city dwellers, such as the Graeco-Roman civic religions, the mystery religions, and finally Christianity when it spread through the Roman Empire; instead they practised their own rites associated with rural life.
Thus until the somewhat later conversion of the country dwellers, ‘pagan’ came to be synonymous with those who did not embrace the Christian faith.
Three features probably characterized the pagan religions: they contrasted with the state religions and the religions of the city dwellers; they were probably related to fertility; and, since rustics are generally deemed to be less literate than city inhabitants, they pagan religions are largely undocumented.”
   So Sarah, anything that is a non-Christian religion is considered by theologians as being pagan. But there is another characteristic that Chryssides did not mention which is common to paganism. This is found in website www.pagaspace.net which states “Paganism is a religion of nature, in other words Pagans revere Nature. Pagans see the divine as immanent in the whole of life and the universe; in every tree, plant, animal and object, man and woman and in the dark side of life as much as in the light. Pagans live their lives attuned to the cycles of Nature, the seasons, life and death.” So Paganism is anything that is non-Christian and they worship nature. So they are going to be entrenched in pantheism (worship of nature), but also cults, witchcraft, Hinduism, Buddhism, the occult, Satanism (will fall into this category), Islam, and all non-Christian religions will fall into Paganism. So Sarah, paganism is also evil.
   God’s Word tells us about some of the characteristics of pagans also and what God thinks about paganism. In Deut. 18:10-12, Moses is telling us that God does not want the Levites when they enter the land that the LORD gives them to imitate the false gods of he people around them which is an example of paganism. The text states “There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,  or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you.” So paganism and its practices is detestable to the LORD. Paul tells us in Gal. 5:19-20 that paganism is one of the works of the flesh.
   Gal. 5:19-20 states “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies.” Since paganism is a work of the flesh and is detestable to the God, God is going to judge them and Rev. 21:8 tells what God will do “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers (pagans), and idolaters (pagans), and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” (my emphasis). So God hates paganism so much because it is a work of the flesh (Gal. 5:19), it is detestable to Him (Deut. 18:20), and He will judge them by sending them into the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8) at the Great White Throne judgment. Sarah, you can see from God’s Word the way He feels about paganism, how He is going to judge them, and again this is evil.

SPIRITUAL WARFARE IS GOING ON.
   Sarah, I told you some of the characteristics of paganism, what paganism is, what God thinks about it (detestable to Him), His judgment against it, and you can tell paganism is evil and work of Satan. And you expressed having experienced this evilness. You stated “I had a horrible encounter with a Satanic priests once.” Which means by our definition of paganism and the characteristics described above, you had an encounter with an evil pagan Satanic priest. And at the kennel, you had an another encounter with an evil pagan, who is so screwed up she does not know what she believes. She said “use  to be a Baptist,” “studied  different religions,” “including the  occult,” and “she believed in  Karma.” She is so messed up  she can not tell you what she believes so she says “I am a pagan.” That way she can say she believes in something, but again this is evil. Sarah, you are involved in a spiritual battle here of good against evil. Eph. 6:12 tell us about this battle “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].”
    When we are involved in spiritual warfare against people possessed by the devil, we are dealing with them on a different plane that just the usual observable I see you as my dog’s caretaker and I am the owner. This is why Paul says “we wrestle not against flesh and blood.” When we do spiritual battle against demon influenced people, we are doing battle with the epitome of Hell itself (against the rulers of the darkness of this world) and it is on a spiritual level. Again, which is deeper than the obvious observable human presence of one’s body (flesh and blood). The pagan caretaker is evil and she knows you on a spiritual level as a born again believer of Christ, and you know her as being evil as a pagan. In other words, she knows whose you are (in Christ)   and you know whose she is (evil pagan). This is why she went after you with such righteous indignation. Now, to be able to pick up on this spiritual warfare of “I know you and you know me” spiritually, one has to be experienced and  well versed in the Bible as a Christian, because a nominal Christian would not pickup  on this spiritual good against evil. The nominal Christian would only deal with the observable “you are a cankerous dog kennel caretaker.” God Bless you Sarah for being such a strong Christian. With your coming up against such evil, you have a right to feel “scared and uncomfortable.” But you did the right things.
    Jesus also came up against this evil recognizing good. We find this in Matthew 8:28-29 which states ““And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?” Sarah, notice Jesus came to Geregeseness and the two devils sought him out,  met him, and recognized him. Just like the pagan sought you out and recognized whose you were. She did not have tell you she was a pagan, but she did. Since the demons sought out Jesus and recognized him, this shows that demons have a mind and can think. The demons are strong and fierce. The demons scared everyone who passed by. The demons recognized the Son of Man and knew he had power over them and wanted to know why he was there to torment them before there designated time of final eternal damnation in Hell at the White Throne Judgment. Demons can recognize who Jesus is but MAN CAN NOT, nor can nominal Christians. But Sarah you recognized who she was and also the Satanic priest. Notice the pagan came out to you just as the two demon possessed came out to Jesus. So this will tell you on a spiritual level there is conflict of evil against good.
    Sarah, I want you to sit back, calm your self, and revel in the love of Jesus Christ, because you do not have to feel “guilty and depressed.” You have power over evil because of the blood of the Lamb. Matt. 10:1 tells about the power over evil ““And when he had called unto [him] his twelve disciples, he gave them power [against] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.” Notice Jesus gave the twelve disciples power over unclean spirits. And you have the same power over evil.
     Sarah, I have shown you that this is a spiritual battle and that you have authority over these type of people. You can not avoid all people who are not Christians. But to save yourself further problems, I suggest you find another vet to take your dog and board him somewhere else.
   When you are talking to people who are pagans, you want to keep the focus on them and do not get into a debate over doctrine because it will not help. For example, if someone tells you they are pagans, you can say “well tell me what a pagan believes. I do not know exactly what a pagan believes in?” Note you are giving the question back to her and gives her a chance to explain.
    If a pagan says she does not believe in God, you can say “I see you do not believe the same way I do, but tell me what you do believe in?”
    You can always not commit yourself by answering a question (asked by the pagan) with a question and say “if I understand you correctly, pagans believe in nature.” This way you are not committing yourself one way or the other.
    Sarah, the best thing to say “I do not want to get into a discussion about what pagans believe. You can believe the way you want to.” Paul tells us it okay to turn away from these people and not get into verbal battles because “they believe in a form godliness, but has no power.” In 2 Tim. 3:1-5 states “But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.” “In these last days difficult times will come,” which means the times before the return of Christ for the Church which we call the rapture. Sarah, the times are such right now at any moment that Christ could come for his church. This is not talking about the Second coming which is at the end of the Tribulation period and Christ comes back with his church. And you can read all these verses and see they apply to present day. People who are pagans are “lovers of pleasure rather lovers of God.” 2 Tim. 3:5, especially, fits your pagan dog caretaker when it states “holding to a form of godliness (they worship paganism, pantheism, nature, trees, Wicca, etc),  although they have denied its power (what they believe in has no power even if they are demon possessed, the demons nor Satan has no power over the born again Christian because Jesus defeated them at the Cross. Sarah, remember Matt. 10:1 also says you have power over unclean spirits and evil. Your Heavenly Father has the power their form of godliness has no power). Paul then says “Avoid such men” means to avoid people who believe this way. It is okay to avoid men who holds onto form of godliness, and denied its power. Sarah, according to Paul is okay to avoid such people as the pagan. We can witness by our actions, our speech, our behavior, etc, and not get into a verbal conflict with the pagans. It is okay to avoid such me. You do not have to witness to everyone you met, but live your life that is praises God and glorifies what Jesus did on the Cross.
   Sarah, you stated “God will hold us accountable if we  don't witness.” We will have to give an account one of these days before the bema judgment seat of Christ not for our salvation but our rewards in Heaven for what we do today on this earth. We can not witness verbally with everyone that is impossible, but we can live to the best of our ability as a godly witness to everyone. As Paul stated to “avoid such men” does not mean we are not being a good witness.
   There has been more damage done to the cause of Christ by zealous Christian who “think they are witnessing” by  beating people over the head with the bible and they are just plain pharisaical and legalistic. You certainly would not witness to a pagan by brow beating him over the head with the bible. But your godly witness as a Christian by what you say, what you do, you walk your talk, all to the glory of god is like putting “hot coals” on the head of the pagan.
   Sarah, one last thing. I would find another place to board my dog. I hope this helps you understand that we are in a spiritual warfare today, but we have power over the evil one. I gave you the verses to show this spiritual war is going on, how God hates paganism, and his judgment of it.


May God Richly Bless You Today.

Dr. Don Howe, RN, PhD, ThD.