Expert: Pastor Don Carpenter - 3/25/2008

Question
QUESTION: Hi Pastor,

I've read some of the previous emails you have on this website on tithing and I find discrepancies in your explanations, which I have also found in the preaching of other pastors.  Some of the information which some of the writers on this site have are correct and I've looked them up. You defend a yearly 10% tithe of your parishioners income.  But one thing you never touched on was the Sabbath and Jubilee years in the Old Covenant.  Those years there was no tithing.  Now I know you say that tithing precedes the Old Law, but the only places I can find that is that it’s recorded that Abraham only tithed once to Melchizadek.  Just once.  Jacob tithed, but it’s clear that it was voluntary, and it’s recorded no where to whom he gave the tithe.  I would think that a lot of it went to charity and not any type of church organization, and of course back then there was no church.  Jacob was not part of any believing congregation outside his household.  Otherwise tithing is only in the Old Law, where the Sabbath years and Jubilee year were exempt.  And in Deuteronomy 14 and 26 it clearly states that the tithe was only once every 3 years in a 7 year cycle.  I’ve heard the argument that that was a secondary additional tithe, but how could that be when Deuteronomy was a retelling of the Law and this is how the law was presented in Deuteronomy, and no other way.  And in Deuteronomy 26 it clearly says that the third year is the “year of tithing”, not the year of the secondary tithing, but of the year of tithing.  I know that later, after the exile, there was a man made law that was instituted which had everyone tithing on a yearly basis, but that was not part of the original law, that was a man made law which was instituted because 9 of the tribes had disappeared and they needed the extra donations to make up the difference and to rebuild the temple.  You really can’t argue past this.  If you say that Deuteronomy 14 and 26 is a secondary tithe, then you would think that the average Christian should more than tithe, but instead give both tithes….but that is not the case because even in Old Testament times the tithe was only once every 3 years in a 7 year cycle, excluding the Sabbath years and the Jubilee.  If the Israelites were allowed to not tithe in those years, then why not Christians?  This whole tithing thing didn’t even enter into Baptist Churches till after the Civil War.  Before that it was against the distinctives of the Baptist faith to preach tithing.  The founders of the Baptist Church were dead set against tithing because they were afraid that it was do to the Baptist Church what it had done to other Churches, like the Anglican Church.  The founders of the Baptist faith didn’t want those dangers to enter their new Church and so they didn’t preach it till after the Civil War, when missionary societies needed the extra funding.  It’s historically inaccurate for a Baptist preacher to preach tithing.  



In the Old Testament the tribe of Levi made up 8.33% of the population and they not only lived off the tithe but also had other forms of income, such as different offerings.  They had cities where they could engage in trade and where they had pasture lands to graze the livestock that they had.  The tribe didn’t just sit around and do nothing and just live off tithes.  The priestly family received tithes from everyone in the country so they had plenty of supplies to live off of.  Even if people only tithed once every three years in a 7 year cycle there was still plenty to go around. In the New Testament Paul said that he worked with his hands not to be a burden to his new congregations.  He never mentions tithing once.  Not once.  He says that the Lord loves a cheerful giver and to give as the Lord has prospered you and as you have decided in your heart.  But never once is tithing mentioned in any of his letters.  The only time Jesus mentions tithing is in reference to how the Pharisees were keeping the Old Law, but never about his followers doing it.  If early Christians tithed then Paul would mentioned it, but he didn’t.  I’m convinced in my heart, but I would only wish that preachers would stop lying about tithing and also be convinced in their hearts and stop discriminating against the parishioners who don’t tithe and let them teach Sunday school or be deacons.  The worst thing is the discrimination that some pastors perform against the parishioners in their churches which do not tithe.  They don't allow them to teach Sunday school, or be deacons or even be on the Church council.

My question to you is: Do you also do this to the parishioners in your church who do not tithe, or do you allow them to hold these offices in your church?  

Below I have the two passages from Deuteronomy:

Deuteronomy 14:28-29
28 “At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates. 29 And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.  


Here is the other passage.  Here it even says that the third year was the "year of tithing".  And it is followed by a prayer that was prayed when the men gave their tithes.


Deuteronomy 26:12-15
12 “When you have finished laying aside all the tithe of your increase in the third year—the year of tithing—and have given it to the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, so that they may eat within your gates and be filled, 13 then you shall say before the LORD your God: ‘I have removed the holy tithe from my house, and also have given them to the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, according to all Your commandments which You have commanded me; I have not transgressed Your commandments, nor have I forgotten them. 14 I have not eaten any of it when in mourning, nor have I removed any of it for an unclean use, nor given any of it for the dead. I have obeyed the voice of the LORD my God, and have done according to all that You have commanded me. 15 Look down from Your holy habitation, from heaven, and bless Your people Israel and the land which You have given us, just as You swore to our fathers, “a land flowing with milk and honey.”  



ANSWER: Hi Mary,

Thank you for this question.  I would guess that perhaps we are going to agree to disagree on this subject.  As you stated, tithing was done by Abraham before the law.  Therefore the principle of giving a tithe of one's first fruits is transdispensational and goes beyond the boundaries of the Levitical Jewish law.

Proverbs 3:9-10
9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: 10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

THere were aspects of tithing that were specific to the dispensation of the law.  The passages you cited are examples of such things.  There are some New Testament modifications.  For example, the tithe during the law was for there to be provisions in God's House, the Temple.  The New Testament clearly teaches that this side of Calvary, God's house is the church.

1 Timothy 3:15
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

In direct answer to your question.  I do not check who gives what in order to qualify for service in the church.  God is very good at that, and He gives very specific warning to us about what happens to those who take from God what is rightfully His.

Malachi 3:8-9
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

To be a member of our church, you need to agree to give to the church regularly, but the amount or percentabe is between you and God.

I hope that I have answered your really good question.

In Christ
Pastor Don

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Pastor,

If I was to start tithing I literally would have to go into debt.  I could not afford to pay the rent.  I only make so much and my rent costs so much, along with my car payment, my health insurance, my monthly medical costs, etc., etc., etc.  I also want to start saving money in the hopes of one day buying a house.  But at this point that is impossible, let alone tithing.  I might be able to give a small amount per week, but no where near a tithe.  It's just literally impossible.  Literally.  I would first have to look for a higher paying job and get the skills to qualify for something better.  

I could move back in with my parents and if I didn't pay them rent then I could start tithing, but I'm a little to old for that at this point in my life.  And I don't think I'm expected to live with my parents for the rest of my life just so I can tithe to the Church.  

Even if I wanted to tithe it's just literally impossible right now.  I've been on my own for 8 years now and I work a full time job and even do a little part time extra work on the side from time to time and right now I have 40 dollars in the bank.  I don't know how I'd be able to pay my next rent bill, or my utilities, or my food expense, or my doctor's bills, if I was to start tithing.  I just don't see it happening to be realistic.  

I earn almost twice the minimum wage and I still can't afford to live.  I WAS SO FAR IN DEBT THAT TWO YEARS AGO I HAD TO DECLARE BANKRUPTCY.  How can I now be expected to tithe when I can't even afford to live.  And how about people who do live working for minimum wage?  I make almost twice as much as they do and I can't make ends meet, how are they supposed to do it and still be able to tithe?  A lot of those people have no skills or education and can't just find a better paying job.  Are you saying that poor people who work for minimum wage and have no skills or are illiterate or don't speak English and therefore can't afford to tithe are not good Christians or are living in sin?  Are they supposed to live on the streets just so they can tithe?  What ever happened to blessed are the poor?

What would your advice be to me if I was to want to start tithing, when quite frankly I literally can't do it?  I've never been able to do it since I moved out of my parents house 8 years ago.  And even back then I never ended up saving a penny in my life.  

Please give me your advice in this case.  I once heard a preacher say that if I'm not tithing then I am living in sin.  How can I do the impossible?  Am I just supposed to work over 40 hours per week so that I can give money to the church and forget about my own life?  I want a family. I want a house one day.  I want a life.  Am I just supposed to live in an apartment for the rest of my life just so I can tithe?  If I was to start tithing tomorrow then I'd end up on the street or at my parents house.  And how about people who live on minimum wage who have no parents that they can turn to, how are they just supposed to drop everything and start tithing. They'd end up on the streets.

These are practical questions and I'd really like your advice.  I have a lot of questions listed here.  Please try to answer them all if you can.  Thanks.

Mary

Answer
Hi Mary,

Thank you for this very practical folow up question.  I do hear this from people from time to time, until they actually surrender to Biblical tithing.  

What would you do if all of a sudden the IRS started taking another 10% from your income?  You would adjust however you had to, because if they chose to do theat there would be nothing you could do, it would already be gone.  You would simply have to live on what is left.  If you had to get another job, sell some things, cut expences... whatever, you would simply have to deal with it.  It would be absolutely irrelevant what this would do to your finances and your current standard of living.

Now let us consider what God's word says on this subject:

Malachi 3:8-10
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Here are some principles we can get from this passage:

1.  10% of all that you get is not yours... it is already God's.  He does not do what the IRS does... he does not with hold it from your pay, but it is already his.  The problem is we spend it like it is ours... but it is not.  The first thing you need to adjest is your thinking about what you have to spend.... you have misjudged your income by 10%.  The first tenth of what comes in is already God's.

2.  If the IRS taxes you, you simply lose the money... it is gone.  If you simply obey, God has promised you blessing!  If you really want to get out of debt and stay out of debt, it will help you to have God's blessing on your finances.  Look at the promises again:

Malachi 3:10-11
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.  11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

God will open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing, simply because you obeyed Him! How cool is that !?  Also, look at verse 11.  God will also help things not wear out as quickly!

3.  If you refuse to obey in this area.  If you refuse to take this on faith that God will do what He said He would.... thn your money will be under a curse!  You think that you have debt problems now?  Wait until God removes His hand of protection over your material posessions and your job.  

Here is the bottom line.  THis is not a choice of whether or not you can afford to tithe.  The tithe is not yours!  It is a choice of whether or not you are going to chose to rob God.  

I know that this seems drastic, but you asked.  I hope that this helps you.

In Christ
Pastor Don