Expert: Pastor Don Carpenter - 5/1/2008

Question
QUESTION: Hi Pastor,

I have a couple of friends who are Jehovah's Witnesses.  They tell me that they do not believe in the Trinity. They believe that Jesus is the angel Michael.  They believe Jesus was created.  In Revelation 3:14, it says,

"And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:"

Does this mean Jesus was created?  I've always understood that the theology concerning the Trinity was that each member is equal and eternal, how does this belief fit in with Revelation 3:14?  

They also don't believe in an eternal hell and state many reasons, such as the fact that the words sheol, and hades, and tartarus, and gehenna are all translated as hell, but they all don't mean hell.  I don't understand this, can you explain what is the flaw in there thinking.

Finally, I have heard many Baptist and other evangelical ministers say that Jehovah's Witnesses are not saved.  Why not?  As long as they have faith in Jesus and know that it is only by his blood that we are saved, are they not also saved?  Is it because they don't believe in the Trinity?

Thanks - Josh

ANSWER: Hi Joshua

Thanks for these questions.

Jesus was not created, He BEGAN creation.

John 1:1-3,14


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

The torment of Hell is forever!

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

JW's do not believe in faith alone.  They believe that one needs to work to get into the kingdom.  They do not believe that Jesus is GOd, so they do not believe in the true Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

I hope that this helps you.

In Christ
Pastor Don

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Pastor,

Thanks for your response.  I agree with you completely on these issues, but you didn't explain what the passage in Revelation means and how we are to reconcile that passage with the belief that Jesus is eternal and has always existed.  

How are we to understand this verse?

"And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:" Revelation 3:14

If I was to talk to my JW friends about this verse, what should I say? In the verse it says that Jesus is the "Beginning of the creation of God". How am I supposed to understand that?  What is your interpretation?  What is your exejeesus of this verse?

ANSWER: Hi Joshua,

I am sorry that I was not clear.  When I cited John 1, I was trying to answer your delema in Revelation 3.  Jesus created everything, therefore He is the beginning of the creation of God because Jesus, being God, created everything.  I hope that this helps.

In Christ
Pastor Don

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Pastor,

Yes this does help a lot. I was not clear before. Per chance do you know what the term "beginning" in Rev. 3 is in the original Greek, and if that means that Jesus was the first created being, or if in Greek the word means that Jesus created all things, thus being the beginning of God's creation?

Josh


Answer
Hi again Josh.


The word is arche, which refers to Christ's supreme rank, not His beginning.  Below are some notes copied from Barnes:

the word used here - ἀρχὴ  archē. The word properly refers to the “commencement” of a thing, not its “authorship,” and denotes properly primacy in time, and primacy in rank, but not primacy in the sense of causing anything to exist. The two ideas which run through the word as it is used in the New Testament are those just suggested. For the former - primacy in regard to time - that is properly the commencement of a thing, see the following passages where the word occurs: Mat_19:4, Mat_19:8; Mat_24:8, Mat_24:21; Mar_1:1; Mar_10:6; Mar_13:8, Mar_13:19; Luk_1:2; Joh_1:1-2; Joh_2:11; Joh_6:64; Joh_8:25, Joh_8:44; Joh_15:27; Joh_16:4; Act_11:15; 1Jo_1:1; 1Jo_2:7, 1Jo_2:13-14, 1Jo_2:24; 1Jo_3:8, 1Jo_3:11; 2Jo_1:5-6. For the latter signification, primacy of rank or authority, see the following places: Luk_12:11; Luk_20:20; Rom_8:38; 1Co_15:24; Eph_1:21; Eph_3:10; Eph_6:12; Col_1:16, Col_1:18; Col_2:10, Col_2:15; Tit_3:1. The word is not, therefore, found in the sense of authorship, as denoting that one is the beginning of anything in the sense that he caused it to have an existence. As to the second of the significations suggested, that it means that he was the first created being, it may be observed:
(a) that this is not a necessary signification of the phrase, since no one can show that this is the only proper meaning which could be given to the words, and therefore the phrase cannot be adduced to prove that he is himself a created being. If it were demonstrated from other sources that Christ was, in fact, a created being, and the first that God had made, it cannot be denied that this language would appropriately express that fact. But it cannot be made out from the mere use of the language here; and as the language is susceptible of other interpretations, it cannot be employed to prove that Christ is a created being.
(b) Such an interpretation would be at variance with all those passages which speak of him as uncreated and eternal; which ascribe divine attributes to him; which speak of him as himself the Creator of all things. Compare Joh_1:1-3; Col_1:16; Heb_1:2, Heb_1:6,Heb_1:8, Heb_1:10-12. The third signification, therefore, remains, that he is “the beginning of the creation of God,” in the sense that he is the head or prince of the creation; that is, that he presides over it so far as the purposes of redemption are to be accomplished, and so far as is necessary for those purposes. This is:
(1)   in accordance with the meaning of the word, Luk_12:11; Luk_20:20, et al. ut supra; and,
(2)   in accordance with the uniform statements respecting the Redeemer, that “all power is given unto him in heaven and in earth” Mat_28:18; that God has “given him power over all flesh” Joh_17:2; that all things are “put under his feet” the. Joh_2:8; 1Co_15:27); that he is exalted over all things, Eph_1:20-22. Having this rank, it was proper that he should speak with authority to the church at Laodicea.


I hope that this helps you.

In Christ
Pastor Don